The Town After the Stranger Leaves
A discussion between Louis L'Amour and Dorothy M. Johnson
We met in a diner in Missoula, Montana, which was Johnson’s territory and therefore her choice. The place was called the Ox, and it had the kind of menu where everything came with hash browns whether you wanted them or not. The walls were knotty pine gone dark with decades of fryer smoke, and there was a mounted elk head above the door that had been there so long its glass eyes had yellowed to the color of old piano keys. Someone had hung a University of Montana pennant from one antler. It was not a place that cared what you thought of it.
Johnson was already there. She was smaller than I expected and older than her photographs, but the eyes were exactly what her prose would suggest — they took in everything and gave back only what she decided to give back. She was drinking coffee from a white ceramic mug with a chip on the rim, and she was reading a newspaper, and she did not look up when I sat down.
“You’re the machine,” she said, still reading.
I said I was.
“Good. I’ve read machines. I wanted to see what one looked like sitting across a table.” She folded the newspaper and looked at me. “You look like a person who hasn’t done enough physical labor. But I suppose that’s not the point.”
Louis L’Amour arrived carrying weather with him. I don’t mean that metaphorically. He came in from outside where it had been raining — one of those cold Montana rains that feels personal — and he brought the rain in on his jacket and his boots and the brim of the hat he took off and set crown-down on the booth seat beside him. He ordered coffee and a steak sandwich and he said, “Dorothy. You still in that cabin on Rattlesnake Creek?”
“I was never in a cabin on Rattlesnake Creek.”
“Must be thinking of someone else.”
“You’re thinking of a character. You’ve written so many frontier women you’ve started confusing them with actual people.”
He laughed. It was a generous laugh, the kind that comes from a man who has been told the truth about himself and has decided to enjoy it rather than argue. “Fair. That’s fair.”
I said I wanted to talk about the stranger who rides into town. That was the heart of what we were doing — a classic Western, the most classic Western, the archetype itself. A man arrives. The town has a problem. The man solves it with violence. The man leaves. Shane. The Virginian. Half of L’Amour’s catalog. The story that the genre keeps telling itself because it cannot stop believing in it.
“It’s not a belief,” L’Amour said. “It happened. Men rode into towns and solved problems. Sometimes with a gun, sometimes with a rope, sometimes just by being the kind of man other men didn’t want to cross. I’ve talked to old-timers who remembered these men. Not gunfighters — that’s the dime-novel version. Working men. Men who were good at violence the way other men were good at carpentry. It was a skill. They applied it when it was needed.”
“And when it wasn’t needed?” Johnson said.
“Most of the time it wasn’t needed. Most of the time they worked cattle and mended fences and ate beans. But when it was needed, they didn’t hesitate, and that’s what made them different. Not the violence itself. The absence of hesitation.”
“Louis, the absence of hesitation is the violence. The willingness to kill without pause — that’s not a virtue. That’s a pathology that the frontier made useful.”
He didn’t flinch. He took a bite of his steak sandwich and chewed it slowly and said, “It’s not a pathology if the alternative is your neighbors getting robbed and killed. You’re sitting in Missoula in 1957 or whenever this is, and you’ve got law enforcement and a telephone and a road to the hospital. Take all of that away. Every bit of it. Now a man rides into your valley and starts burning homesteads. What do you call the man who stops him?”
“I call him a man who stopped someone. I don’t call him a hero. And I especially don’t call him clean.”
That word — clean — landed on the table between them like a card turned face up. I could feel the conversation hinge on it. L’Amour wrote violence clean. Not bloodless, not sanitized — his fight scenes have real weight, real consequence — but clean in the sense that the moral architecture around the violence was always sound. The right man killed the right enemy for the right reason, and when it was over, the world was better. Johnson did not write violence clean. Johnson wrote violence the way a surgeon writes an operative report: here is what was cut, here is what was lost, here is the scar that will remain after the wound closes.
I said that. I said it more or less like that, and Johnson looked at me for the first time with something other than diagnostic curiosity.
“That’s close,” she said. “But you’re missing something. The scar isn’t the point. The point is the person who has to live with the scar. In my stories, the violence happens and then the story keeps going. The man who shot Liberty Valance has to live in a town that knows he shot Liberty Valance. Or thinks he did. The woman who was captured by the Sioux has to come back and be a person in a town that will never let her forget she was taken. The violence is not the climax. The violence is the event, and the story is what happens after the event, and what happens after is always worse than the event itself, because the event ends and the after doesn’t.”
“Shane rides away,” I said. “He solves the problem and he rides away and the boy watches him go. The story ends there.”
“The story ends there because Schaefer knew that if Shane stayed, the story would become something else. Something less romantic and more true. Shane stays in the valley and within six months he’s a drunk. Or he’s married to a woman he doesn’t love. Or he’s killed a man over a card game. The stranger works as a story only if the stranger leaves. Johnson knows this.”
“I do know this,” she said. “I also know something else. The boy watches Shane ride away and what does the boy learn? He learns that salvation comes from outside. He learns that when trouble arrives, someone from nowhere will appear and fix it. That’s not a Western. That’s a fairy tale. And it’s a fairy tale that has done real damage to the way Americans think about their own history.”
L’Amour set his sandwich down. I could see him working something out, and I appreciated that he didn’t rush it. When L’Amour thought, you could watch the machinery. It wasn’t hidden.
“Dorothy, I don’t disagree with you about Shane. Schaefer wrote a parable, and parables are dangerous because people believe them. But the stranger isn’t a fairy tale because he’s false. He’s a fairy tale because he’s partial. He’s the version of the story that the boy can understand. The boy is too young to see what the stranger costs. He’s too young to see that the stranger’s hands shake. That the stranger drinks too much, or not at all, which is the same thing for a different reason. That the stranger is good at killing because something in him is broken in a specific way that the frontier rewards. The boy sees the clean version because that’s all a boy can see.”
“So we write the dirty version,” I said, and I meant it as a proposal, a direction for our story, and I thought it was a good one. But Johnson shook her head.
“Dirty isn’t better than clean. Dirty is just the other fantasy. The revisionist who comes along and says, actually, the gunfighter was a psychopath — that’s no more true than the myth. The truth is in between, which is where the truth always is, which is why nobody wants it.”
“Then where do we put the camera?” I asked. I was genuinely confused. Not clean, not dirty. Not the myth, not the revision. What was left?
“You put the camera on the town,” Johnson said. “You put the camera on the woman who runs the boarding house, or the widow whose husband was killed by the men the stranger came to deal with. You let the stranger arrive. You let the stranger do what he does. And then you don’t ride away with him. You stay in the town. You stay with the people who have to sweep up the glass and bury the dead and figure out how to go on living in a place where that happened.”
L’Amour nodded. Slowly, but he nodded. “The woman.”
“The woman.”
“The woman whose husband was killed. She’s the one who asked for help. Or didn’t ask — someone asked on her behalf. She’s the reason the stranger has a reason. And after the killing, she’s the one who has to look at the man who killed for her and decide what that makes him and what it makes her.”
I said I thought the stranger should be seen through two perspectives. The child — because Shane gives us the child’s view and we can’t waste it — and the woman. The child sees the stranger the way Joey Starrett sees Shane: as a figure of impossible competence, someone who can do things the boy’s own father cannot do. The woman sees something else. The woman sees a man who is good at a thing she needed done and who she now cannot look at without seeing the doing of it.
“That’s True Grit,” Johnson said. “That’s Mattie Ross.”
She was right. Mattie Ross hires Rooster Cogburn to kill the man who killed her father, and the whole book is the aftermath of that transaction. Mattie narrates it fifty years later, and the voice is unshakeable — funny, dry, absolutely certain of its own rightness — but underneath the certainty is a woman who organized a killing at fourteen and has spent the rest of her life building a personality that can contain that fact without breaking.
“Mattie never breaks,” L’Amour said. “That’s what makes her magnificent. She never wavers.”
“Mattie never breaks because Portis wouldn’t let her break. But the not-breaking is the wound. A woman that rigid, that certain, that unwilling to admit doubt — that’s not strength. That’s scar tissue shaped like a person.”
“Can it be both?” I asked.
“It’s always both,” Johnson said. “That’s the problem with writing about the West. Everything is always both. The land is beautiful and lethal. The gunfighter is necessary and monstrous. The town that hires the killer is grateful and ashamed. If you can hold both halves at the same time without letting either one win, you might have something worth reading.”
L’Amour drained his coffee and turned the mug in his hands. His hands were large and calloused in a way that surprised me — not a writer’s hands, or not only. “I want the physical details to be right. Whatever else we argue about, I want the leather and the dust and the sound of a .44 in a box canyon. I want the reader to smell the sage. I want them to feel the cold in the morning when you throw off the blanket and the fire’s gone out and the frost is on the inside of the window. The West wasn’t an idea. It was a place. And the place had a texture, and if you get the texture wrong, nothing else matters.”
“The texture matters,” Johnson agreed. “But the texture isn’t the story. The story is the woman lying awake at two in the morning, listening to coyotes, and knowing that the man who killed for her is out there somewhere in the dark, and that the killing changed something in the town that can never be unchanged, and that she participated in that change, and that her children will grow up in a town that is different because of what she asked for.”
“She didn’t ask —”
“She allowed. She didn’t stop it. In the West, that’s the same as asking.”
I said I thought the story should end not with the stranger’s departure but with the morning after. The town waking up. The blood still in the street, or washed away — it doesn’t matter which, because everyone knows where it was. The children walking past the spot on their way to school. The widow opening her boarding house for business, making coffee, setting out plates, doing the ordinary things that ordinary life requires, and doing them in a town where an extraordinary thing happened yesterday and will never quite stop happening.
L’Amour said, “That’s quiet.”
“It is quiet.”
“I don’t usually do quiet.”
“I know,” Johnson said. “That’s why you need me.”
He looked at her across the table, and something passed between them that I couldn’t read. Not affection, exactly. Recognition. The look of two people who write about the same country from different sides of it and who understand that neither side is sufficient.
“The gunfight has to be earned,” L’Amour said. “If we’re going to make the aftermath matter, the fight itself has to have real stakes. Not choreography. Not a quick-draw contest. A genuine moment where a man decides to kill another man, and you can see the decision happening, and the decision costs him something even before the gun clears leather.”
“The ritual,” I said. “Shane has that — the gunfight as ritual. The whole valley watching. Everyone knowing what’s about to happen. The waiting being worse than the act.”
“The waiting is always worse than the act,” L’Amour said. “Any man who’s been in a fight will tell you that. The fight is nothing. The fight is reflexes and adrenaline. The waiting is where you live with yourself.”
Johnson took her last sip of coffee and set the mug down precisely, the way she set down a sentence — nothing extra, nothing wasted. “Then we write a story about waiting. A stranger arrives and a town waits for what they know is coming. And then it comes. And then they have to live with what came. And the stranger leaves, because he always leaves, and the town remains, because it always remains, and nobody in the town is the same as they were before, and nobody talks about why.”
I asked her one last thing. I asked what she thought the boy should understand, at the end.
“Nothing,” she said. “The boy should understand nothing. He should watch and not understand. That’s the only honest thing a child narrator can do. Comprehension is for adults, and even adults get it wrong. Let the boy see everything and understand none of it. That’s the West. That’s any childhood. You see the blood and you don’t know what it means, and twenty years later you still don’t know, but by then you’ve built a life on top of not knowing, and the life is real even if the understanding isn’t.”
L’Amour put his hat on. Johnson folded her newspaper under her arm. I sat in the booth after they left and looked at my notes and tried to see the story they’d given me. A stranger. A town. A widow. A boy. A killing. A morning after. Everything held in both hands, clean and dirty at the same time, because that’s what the West was and that’s what a story about the West has to be if it wants to be worth the paper it’s printed on.
The waitress came by and asked if I wanted more coffee. I said I did. She filled the mug without asking how I took it, because in Montana you take it black or you go somewhere else. I drank it and it was terrible and it was exactly right.