What the Room Smells Like After Everyone Has Left
A discussion between Joan Didion and James Baldwin
We met in a restaurant that was trying too hard, which turned out to be appropriate. It was one of those places in Brooklyn — exposed brick, menu on a clipboard, a cocktail called something like “The Ancestral” — and Baldwin looked at it with an expression I could not quite read, something between amusement and diagnosis, while Didion ordered a vodka and soda without looking at the menu and said nothing about the decor. She did not need to. The silence was the observation.
I had asked them here because I was writing an essay about a neighborhood — or about a man in a neighborhood, or about a daughter returning to a neighborhood after a man died — and I did not yet know which of those was the real subject. I knew the ingredients: a building superintendent who lived on Myrtle Avenue for thirty-one years. A daughter who left for Chicago. A death that was not sudden but was also not expected. A bodega that became a place selling twelve-dollar toast. A photograph taken out of a frame.
“The frame,” Didion said. She had been listening to me describe the piece for several minutes, and this was the first thing she picked up. “You said she leaves the frame.”
I said yes, she takes the photograph but leaves the frame behind in the closet.
“That’s the essay. Everything else is context.”
Baldwin set down his glass — bourbon, no ice, which he had ordered without consulting the cocktail menu either, to the visible confusion of the server. “Everything else is not context, Joan. Everything else is the neighborhood. The neighborhood is not context.”
“I didn’t say the neighborhood doesn’t matter. I said the frame is the essay’s structural center. The object that carries the weight. You know perfectly well what I mean.”
“I know what you mean. I’m telling you what it means is not enough.”
This is how they began, and I should have expected it. Didion reaching for the object, the image, the precise thing that holds meaning without declaring it. Baldwin insisting that the meaning is not in the object but in the conditions that produced the object — in the history that put a man in a closet with a framed photograph he never showed anyone. They were circling the same question from different altitudes, and neither of them was going to descend to the other’s level willingly.
I said I was interested in the essay as a portrait of a place at a specific moment, the way “Slouching Towards Bethlehem” captured the Haight in 1967. The center not holding. A culture examined at its fracture point.
Didion gave me a look that was not unkind but was certainly corrective. “The Haight piece worked because I did not editorialize about the Haight. I described what I saw. I described a five-year-old on acid. The reader does the rest. If you tell the reader that gentrification is bad, you have lost the reader, because the reader already knows gentrification is bad, or does not know it and will not be persuaded by you saying so.”
“Joan is right about the editorializing,” Baldwin said, and he said it so quickly that I understood he had already prepared the second half of the sentence. “But there is a difference between editorializing and testimony. When I wrote about my father’s death, I was not editorializing. I was telling you what happened to a specific man in a specific country, and the country was the condition that made the man, and the man was the evidence that the country was what it was. You cannot separate the father from the country. They are the same sentence.”
“They are not the same sentence. That is precisely what is wrong with so much political writing — the assumption that the private and the public are the same sentence. They are two sentences. They can be placed next to each other. The juxtaposition is where the essay lives. But if you collapse them you get propaganda.”
Baldwin laughed. It was not a happy laugh. “You would call ‘Notes of a Native Son’ propaganda?”
“I would call it a masterpiece. I would also call it a piece of writing in which the author was fully conscious that the private grief and the public fury were two separate forces that happened to occupy the same body at the same time. You did not merge them. You braided them. There is a difference.”
Baldwin was quiet for a moment. Then he said, “You may be right about the braiding. But the braid is not decorative. The braid is load-bearing.”
I wrote that down. Load-bearing braid. It was exactly the structural principle I had been groping toward without finding the language for it. The essay would need to move between the daughter’s private experience — the glass of water on the nightstand, the smell of Barbasol — and the public fact of the neighborhood’s transformation, and neither strand could be subordinate to the other. They had to carry weight equally, or the essay would tip into either sentimentality or sociology.
“Tell me about the father,” Didion said. “Not what happened to him. What he was like.”
I described what I had so far: a building superintendent. Not sentimental. Fixed boilers, painted hallways Navajo White. Watched the Mets. Drank Budweiser. Called his daughter once a month, conversations that had the quality of two people checking that the other one still existed.
“That’s good,” she said. “The Navajo White is good. Don’t explain the Navajo White. Let it sit there.”
“Why is the Navajo White good?” I asked, though I thought I knew.
“Because it is a color designed to eliminate the concept of color. It tells you something about institutional America without saying a word about institutional America. That is what objects do in essays. They carry what the writer is too smart to say directly.”
Baldwin shook his head, not in disagreement but in the way a person shakes his head when someone has said something true that is also, from a certain angle, an evasion. “The Navajo White is good. But the reason it is good is not that it is a clever object for the reader to decode. The reason it is good is that a Black man in Brooklyn spent thirty years painting hallways a color called Navajo White for landlords who did not know his name, and that fact — not the symbol of it, not the metaphor, but the fact — is the essay. If the reader decodes it, fine. If the reader feels it in their body, that is better.”
“You want the reader to feel it in their body.”
“I want the reader to be unable to not feel it.”
“And I want the reader to arrive at feeling through precision. Through the accumulation of specific, carefully chosen details that create a pressure the reader cannot escape. We want the same thing. We disagree about the mechanism.”
“We disagree about more than the mechanism, Joan.”
There was a pause. The server came by. Baldwin ordered another bourbon. Didion had barely touched her vodka. I was drinking water because I was trying to pay attention and alcohol makes me sloppy, and also because I felt, sitting between these two, that I should stay as transparent as possible — a medium through which their ideas could pass without too much distortion.
I asked about the daughter. The essay was told in first person, the daughter’s voice, and I was uncertain about how much interiority to allow her. The danger was that she would become a mouthpiece — that her grief would be instrumentalized in service of a point about gentrification, or that the gentrification material would be instrumentalized in service of a point about grief, and either way the essay would flatten into argument.
“She should not know what she thinks,” Didion said. “That is the most important thing. She is in the apartment. She is packing his clothes into garbage bags. Four bags. She finds a photograph she has never seen. She does not yet understand what any of this means. The essay is the process of her failing to understand it.”
“No,” Baldwin said. “She understands it. She has always understood it. What she has not done is allow herself to feel the understanding. The essay is not about discovering what she thinks. It is about being unable to avoid what she has always known.”
This was, I realized, a fundamental divergence. Didion’s model of the essay is epistemological — a process of figuring out, of the writer cornering herself into a position from which she cannot escape the truth. Baldwin’s model is testimonial — the truth is already known, has always been known, and the essay is the act of saying it aloud despite the cost. For Didion, the essay discovers. For Baldwin, the essay confesses.
“Can it be both?” I said, and immediately felt foolish for asking, because the answer was obviously that it could, and the harder question was how.
Baldwin did not let me off the hook. “What do you mean, both? Be specific.”
I said: what if the daughter knows, at a cellular level, what the neighborhood’s transformation means — she is not naive, she grew up there, she understands the economics and the racial dynamics — but she has not connected that knowledge to her father’s death. She has kept them in separate rooms. The private loss and the public process. The essay is the moment when the wall between those rooms fails.
“That is closer,” Baldwin said. “But be careful with ‘the wall fails.’ That sounds like an epiphany, and I do not trust epiphanies in essays. They are almost always lies the writer tells to give the reader a sense of completion.”
Didion, unexpectedly, agreed with this completely. “The essay should not end with understanding. It should end with the weight of the thing she could not carry. The frame. She leaves it. That is not resolution. That is a specific failure she will live with.”
“A failure she has earned the right to name,” Baldwin added.
“Yes. That.”
This was one of those moments the template warned me about — when they agree and it feels like a discovery rather than a conclusion. Neither of them had said this before. They had arrived at it from opposite directions: Didion through her insistence on the object, Baldwin through his insistence on the cost. The frame is the object. Leaving it is the cost. The essay would end there, with a gesture that is both precise and devastating and that refuses to resolve into meaning.
I asked Baldwin about the father’s line — “I don’t think they know where they are” — which I wanted to be the essay’s recurring refrain. Baldwin’s face changed when I said it. Something opened.
“That is a sentence a man says when he has watched the world rearrange itself around him and he has nothing left to do but describe it. It is not anger. It is not bitterness. It is the clarity that comes after those things have burned through and what remains is an observation so simple it sounds like small talk, except it is not small talk. It is a eulogy for a world that died while everyone in it was still alive.”
I felt the hairs on my arms stand up. That was it. That was the register I needed for the father’s voice — not rage, not resignation, but a clarity beyond both.
Didion said: “The danger with a refrain is that it becomes sentimental through repetition. Use it twice. Once when the daughter hears it. Once when she understands it. Not three times. Not as a motif. Twice.”
“I would use it three times,” Baldwin said. “Twice for the reader. Once for the father.”
“What does that mean, once for the father?”
“It means there should be a moment in the essay where the sentence appears and it is not the daughter remembering it or interpreting it. It is simply him, saying it, and the essay holds the space around it without commentary. The reader is alone with the father for one moment. That is what testimony means — you let the witness speak and you do not paraphrase.”
Didion considered this. I could see her turning it over, looking for the flaw. After a long moment she said, “That could work. If the prose around it is controlled enough.”
“The prose is always controlled enough when the writer trusts the material,” Baldwin said. “That is the only rule I have ever believed in.”
I asked about the walk after the funeral — the eleven-block walk from the church back to the apartment, counting the new businesses. Seventeen new businesses in eleven blocks. I wanted this to be the essay’s structural equivalent of a tracking shot, the camera moving steadily through the neighborhood while the daughter’s grief and the neighborhood’s transformation occur simultaneously in the same visual field.
“That is a very cinematic way to think about an essay,” Didion said, and I could not tell whether she meant it as a compliment or a diagnosis.
“It is not cinematic,” I said. “It is ambulatory. She is walking. The essay walks with her.”
“Walking is good,” Baldwin said. “Walking is how you process what the body knows and the mind is not ready to say. Every important essay I have ever written, I wrote while walking or immediately after walking. The rhythm of walking enters the sentences. You cannot write a dishonest sentence while walking because the body will not allow it.”
“That is a mystical claim,” Didion said.
“It is an empirical one. Try it.”
“I write at a desk.”
“I know.”
I was not sure whether Baldwin was teasing her or making a serious point about the relationship between physical movement and prose rhythm. Possibly both. What I took from it was that the walking section of the essay needed a different cadence — longer sentences, a cumulative rhythm, the businesses ticking by like a count that the daughter does not want to finish because finishing the count means arriving at the apartment and the apartment means the life she left and the father who stayed and the frame she will not be able to carry.
Didion said something then that I have been thinking about since. She said: “The essay is about framing. Not the photograph frame. The act of framing. What you include, what you exclude, what falls outside the border. The daughter frames her father’s life by writing about it. The real-estate listings frame the neighborhood by describing it. The photograph frames a moment. And every act of framing is also an act of exclusion. The essay should know this about itself. It should be aware that it is doing the same thing it is describing.”
“The essay as self-aware frame,” I said.
“Not self-aware in the way that postmodern writing is self-aware, pointing at its own construction. Self-aware in the way that good essays are always self-aware — the writer knows she is choosing, and that choice has consequences, and some of those consequences are losses.”
Baldwin nodded slowly. “That is where we converge, Joan, whether you like it or not. The essay is an act of framing and the essay knows it is an act of framing and the thing that falls outside the frame is the father’s actual life, which no essay can contain, which is the source of the essay’s grief and also its reason for existing. You cannot hold it. You write it anyway.”
“I would not say it that way.”
“I know you wouldn’t. That’s why there are two of us.”
We sat with that for a while. The restaurant was filling up around us. The couple at the next table was discussing a podcast about fermentation. Baldwin caught my eye and I saw something in his face — not the amusement I expected but something sadder, something that said: this is what the essay is about, this exact moment, these people who are perfectly decent and who have no idea what was here before them, and the man who died knowing they would come and knowing they would not know, and the daughter who left and came back and left again, carrying a photograph and leaving behind a frame, and the essay that tries to hold all of it and cannot, and the writer who tries to write the essay and cannot entirely do that either, and the failure is the point, the failure is the only honest outcome, because an essay that succeeded in containing a man’s life would be a lie, and a lie is the one thing this particular essay cannot afford to be.
Didion finished her vodka. She set the glass down precisely, aligned with the edge of the table.
“The title,” she said. “‘The Weight of the Frame.’ It works, but only if the reader understands by the end that the weight is not metaphorical. It is a physical object she held in her hands and chose to put down. The metaphor is incidental. The object is real.”
“The weight is not incidental,” Baldwin said. “The weight is both. It is the frame in the closet and it is thirty-one years on Myrtle Avenue and it is a building worth more empty than occupied and it is a country that has always been better at taking the image than preserving the thing. The metaphor is not incidental because the reality is not incidental. They are the same weight.”
“They are not the same weight.”
“They are the same weight, Joan.”
She looked at him. He looked at her. Neither of them blinked. I sat between them, holding my water glass, knowing I would have to write this essay alone and that the essay would have to live inside this argument without resolving it — the object and the condition, the frame and the country, the precise detail and the prophetic claim — and that the best I could hope for was to hold both weights at once without pretending they were the same thing or different things, just to hold them, the way the daughter held the frame before she put it down.
The check came. Baldwin reached for it. Didion let him. I offered to split it and they both looked at me as if I had said something very young.
Outside, it was cold. Brooklyn cold, the kind that finds the gaps in your coat. Baldwin turned up his collar and said, almost to himself, “The glass of water on the nightstand. Half full. That is where the essay begins.”
“That is where the essay ends,” Didion said.
They walked in opposite directions. I stood on the sidewalk between them, watching them go, and then I went home and sat at my desk for a long time without writing anything, because I was thinking about a glass of water that was still holding its water while the man who put it there was not, and I did not yet know whether that image was an ending or a beginning, and I suspected it was both, and I suspected that the essay would have to find out which.