What a Man Becomes After the Smoke

A discussion between Patrick O'Brian and Joseph Conrad


The place was wrong for Conrad and perfect for O’Brian. A dockside pub in Greenwich, low-ceilinged, the plaster stained amber by two centuries of pipe smoke that no renovation had quite managed to erase. Through the window you could see the Thames at low tide, the mud flats gleaming like something recently skinned, and the masts of the Cutty Sark in her dry berth, rigged but going nowhere. O’Brian had chosen it. He’d arrived early and secured the table nearest the window — a habit, I suspected, of a man who liked to see what was coming upriver.

Conrad arrived ten minutes late and wet. He shook rain from his coat without apology, sat down, and ordered black coffee, which the barman received with the quiet bewilderment of a man whose establishment sells beer.

“They’ll have coffee,” O’Brian said. “This is Greenwich. They cater to the naval pensioner. The coffee will be terrible, but it will exist.”

“All coffee is terrible,” Conrad said. “This is not a complaint. It is a condition.”

I had a pint of bitter that I was not really drinking, and a notebook that I was holding like a shield. I had read both of them — years of reading both of them — and sitting between them felt like standing in a narrow strait with weather coming from two directions. O’Brian was smaller than I’d expected, precise in his movements, his hands folded on the table in a way that suggested economy of motion raised to a principle. Conrad was heavier, more weathered, with the posture of a man who had spent too many years leaning into wind and was now, on land, permanently braced against something that was no longer there.

“So,” I said. “A naval story. The Napoleonic Wars. A captain and a surgeon.”

“The relationship is everything,” O’Brian said immediately. “Without it you have incident. A broadside, a boarding action, some blood — these are mechanics. The story is two men in a small room who have chosen each other, in the way that men at sea choose each other, which is to say not quite voluntarily. You are assigned your ship and your shipmates by the Admiralty. But within that assignment you find — or you do not find — the one person whose company makes the confinement bearable. This is not love in the romantic sense, though it is not entirely unlike it. It is something for which English has no precise word, which is a failing of the language I have spent my career attempting to correct.”

“Friendship,” I offered.

“No. Friendship is what you have with a man you meet for dinner once a month. What Doyle and Fenton have is structural. It is load-bearing. Remove it and the ship still floats, but the men aboard it become mechanisms. They function. They do not live.”

Conrad stirred his coffee, which had arrived and was, as predicted, terrible. “You are describing what I would call the illusion of the ship. The ship is a society — a complete, enclosed society with its own laws, its own hierarchy, its own morality. And the men inside it believe it is permanent. They believe the friendships are permanent, the ranks are permanent, the code they live by is permanent. But the ship is wood. It burns. It sinks. It is paid off at Chatham and broken up for timber. Everything inside it is contingent, and the men do not know this, or they know it and they refuse to act on the knowledge, which amounts to the same thing.”

“That’s rather bleak,” O’Brian said.

“It is accurate.”

“Accuracy and bleakness are not the same thing, though I’ll grant they travel in the same coach more often than one would like.”

I saw a crack to wedge into. “The story I want to write has both of these things in it. The warmth of the relationship and the knowledge that it’s contingent. Doyle and Fenton play Haydn in the great cabin. They banter about wine and accidentals. And then a night action comes, and in the middle of it, Doyle makes a choice that —”

“Don’t tell me the choice yet,” Conrad said.

“Why not?”

“Because the choice is the destination. We should discuss the passage. A man’s character is not revealed in the moment of crisis. It is formed in the thousand moments before it. The music. The wine. The way he holds his bow. The way he speaks to the loblolly boy. When the broadside comes, he does not decide who he is. He discovers who he has been all along. This is the horror of the thing.”

O’Brian set down his glass — a small sherry, which he had been drinking with the careful attention of a man who knows exactly what he is tasting. “Horror is your word, not mine. I would say revelation. The sea reveals. It does not invent. A man who is a coward on the quarterdeck was a coward in his mother’s drawing room. He simply hadn’t been asked the question yet.”

“And a man who is brave?”

“Was brave before he knew it. Yes. This is why the Navy values training above inspiration. You drill the men until the response is mechanical, because the mechanism is what survives when the thinking part of the mind has shut itself away in the bread room and locked the door. Drill. Routine. The pattern of a watch, the order of a mess, the precise way a halliard is coiled — these are not mere efficiency. They are architecture. When the shot comes through the hull and the world becomes noise and splinter, the man does not think. He does the thing his hands know how to do. This is not unthinking — it is the deepest kind of thought, laid down over years.”

“But that is exactly the problem,” Conrad said, leaning forward. His coffee sat untouched now. “The drill preserves the man’s function. It does not preserve his soul. Your drilled sailor loads his gun and fires it and loads it again, and he does this while his messmates are dying beside him, and he does not stop, and he does not grieve, because the drill does not permit grieving. The grieving comes later, or it does not come at all, and either way the man is damaged in a place the drill cannot reach. You write beautifully about the warmth of shipboard life, Patrick. The mess, the music, the daily comedy of two hundred men pretending to be civilized in a space designed for war. But beneath all of it there is a question you do not always ask, which is: what does this life cost the men who live it?”

A silence. The Thames moved past the window, brown and patient. A tourist boat went by, and someone on its deck was taking a photograph of the Cutty Sark, which would capture none of what the ship actually was and everything of what it appeared to be, which struck me as relevant to what we were discussing, though I kept this observation to myself.

“I ask the question,” O’Brian said quietly. “I ask it differently than you do. You ask it in the philosophical register, which is to say you ask it from above, looking down at the men as specimens of a moral condition. I ask it from inside. I sit in the cockpit with the surgeon while he saws a man’s leg off by lantern light, and I do not tell the reader what to feel about this, because the reader is there, in the stink and the noise, and if the prose is doing its work the reader does not need to be told. The horror — your word — is in the detail. Not in the abstraction.”

“You think I abstract.”

“I think you cannot help it. It is your gift and your affliction. You circle the thing. You approach it from twelve angles. You describe the impression it leaves on the consciousness of every person who witnesses it. And by the time you have finished, the thing itself — the actual event, the physical fact of what happened — has become almost secondary to the meaning you have draped over it. This is magnificent when it works. ‘Lord Jim’ is one of the great novels in the language. But it works because Jim’s jump from the Patna is so simple, so brutally physical — a man steps off a ship — that all your circling cannot diminish it. The jump remains. The body in the air remains.”

I had been holding my breath, I realized, and let it out. “That’s what I want. The physical fact that survives the meaning.”

“Then you must earn it,” Conrad said. “The physical fact must be precise. Not poetic. Not laden with significance. A man does a thing. His body moves in a specific direction. His hands are in a specific place. And the significance — if there is significance, and one must never assume there is — comes from what the reader already knows about this man, about his hands, about where they have been before this moment.”

“The accidentals,” I said.

They both looked at me.

“In the story. Doyle and Fenton play Haydn together. Fenton teases Doyle about missing the accidentals. And then later, during the action, Doyle’s hands — the same hands that fumbled the accidentals — those hands make the choice. They go to the captain. Not to the lieutenant who’s freezing.”

O’Brian nodded slowly. “The hands. Yes. That is correct. The reader should see the hands twice — on the cello and on the wound — and feel the connection without being told to feel it. This is the work that subtext does when it is left alone to do its work.”

“But you must be careful,” Conrad said. “The symmetry can become too neat. If the hands on the cello are clearly foreshadowing the hands on the wound, the reader feels managed. The author’s machinery is visible. In life, the connections between our peaceful moments and our terrible ones are not symmetrical. They are strange. They surprise even the man who lives them. Doyle himself would not think, as he kneels beside Fenton, ‘these are the same hands that played the andante.’ He would think nothing. He would act. The connection is for the reader, and it must be offered, not imposed.”

“You’re telling me to trust the reader.”

“I am telling you to trust the detail. The reader will find what is there. They always do. And what they find on their own, they keep. What you place in their hand, they put down.”

I wrote this in my notebook, aware that I was writing down advice about not being too explicit in a notebook full of explicit notes, and that this was probably the kind of irony Conrad would appreciate and O’Brian would find merely untidy.

“There is the question of Harding,” I said. “The young lieutenant. He freezes when command falls on him. Doyle could have helped — a word, a push, something — and chose the captain instead.”

“What happens to him?” O’Brian asked.

“I don’t know entirely. He’s reassigned. The captain covers for him in the official report. He goes to a transport and disappears.”

“Good,” said Conrad. “Do not follow him.”

O’Brian raised an eyebrow. “You would leave him unresolved?”

“I would leave him human. The resolved character is the dead character. Jim is alive in my novel because his question is never answered. Did he redeem himself at the end? Perhaps. I do not know. Marlow does not know. Jim himself does not know. If I had written a scene in which Jim clearly earns his redemption through an act of unambiguous courage, the novel would be finished in the worst sense — it would stop mattering. It would be consumed and set aside. Instead it remains open. The wound does not close.”

“But that is the difference between us,” O’Brian said, and his voice had hardened slightly. “I believe in the closed wound. Not in the tidy resolution — I am not writing fairy stories — but in the possibility that men recover. That they adapt. That the architecture I spoke of earlier — the drill, the routine, the friendship, the music in the great cabin — these things are not illusions. They are what men build to survive, and they work, imperfectly, partially, but they work. Your men do not recover. Your men carry their failures to the grave and are buried under them.”

“My men are honest.”

“Your men are exhausted. And they exhaust the reader.”

I felt the air between them change. This was not banter. This was the thing itself, the genuine fault line between two men who both understood the sea and drew entirely different conclusions from it.

“What if both are true?” I said. “What if the story does both things? The friendship survives the revelation — Doyle tells Fenton, Fenton already knows, they play the andante again. The architecture holds. But it holds differently. It requires effort where before it was effortless. And underneath — underneath, where Conrad lives — the question remains. Not Harding’s question. Doyle’s question. Was the choice right? Could he have saved both? The architecture of friendship holds, but the man inside it knows something about himself that he did not know before, and that knowledge does not go away.”

O’Brian considered this. He turned his sherry glass a quarter turn on the table. “The knowledge is the weight.”

“Yes.”

“And the man carries it.”

“Yes. Always.”

Conrad, for the first time, smiled. It was not a warm smile. It was the smile of a man who has been told something he already believed. “Now you are writing my story.”

“I am writing both of your stories,” I said. “That is the point.”

“You are writing your own story,” Conrad corrected. “Using our furniture. This is permitted. This is, in fact, the only thing that is permitted. A writer who imitates is a forger. A writer who steals is an artist. Steal well.”

O’Brian finished his sherry. Outside, the tide had turned, and the Thames was running the other direction now, which it does twice a day, every day, regardless of what happens on its banks or in the ships that ride upon it.

“One more thing,” O’Brian said. “The wine.”

“The wine?”

“The Marsala. The bad Marsala that Fenton serves in the great cabin. It must be specific. Not ‘wine’ — Marsala, from a particular place, with a particular taste, bought at a particular chandler’s in a port your reader can find on a map. The specificity is what makes the thing real. Conrad will give you the darkness. I will give you the Marsala. Between the two, the story might survive.”

“And the Haydn,” Conrad said.

“What about the Haydn?”

“Which quartet?”

O’Brian looked at him with something approaching respect. “You’re right. It matters. Not because the reader will know the piece — most will not — but because the writer must know it. The andante must be a real andante from a real quartet, and the writer must hear it in his mind as Doyle and Fenton play it badly in the lantern light, and the badness of the playing must be the specific kind of badness that comes from affection rather than incompetence, and this distinction — between the man who plays badly because he does not care and the man who plays badly because he cares too much to stop — this is the distinction that the whole story rests upon.”

“The man who cares too much to stop,” I said.

“Playing badly, in the dark, on the water.”

“While something terrible approaches.”

“While something has already happened,” Conrad said. “The terrible thing is always in the past. We merely spend the rest of the story reaching it.”

The barman collected our glasses. The rain had stopped. Through the window, the Cutty Sark stood in her berth, stripped of purpose, preserved for looking at, which is what happens to ships when the sea is done with them and men decide they are worth remembering. I closed my notebook. I had not captured a tenth of what had passed between these two men — the way O’Brian’s precision kept meeting Conrad’s darkness and producing something neither of them quite intended — but I had enough. I had the hands on the cello. I had the weight that does not go away. I had the Marsala and the bad Haydn and the question that the sea asks men and does not stay for the answer.

Conrad stood, buttoned his coat, and said something I have been turning over since.

“The sea is not a mirror. People say this. The sea as mirror. No. A mirror shows you what you are. The sea shows you what you were pretending not to be. This is worse. Write that.”

He left. O’Brian watched him go, then turned back to the window and the river and the ship that was not going anywhere.

“Difficult man,” he said. “But not wrong. God help us, not wrong.”