Porch Lights in the Severance Package

A discussion between Ray Bradbury and George Saunders


We met at Bradbury’s insistence in a park. Not a famous park, not a significant one. A park in a suburb of a suburb, the kind of place with a drinking fountain that doesn’t work and a bench dedicated to someone named Elaine. Saunders was already there when I arrived, sitting on Elaine’s bench, eating an apple with the focused intensity of someone who hadn’t planned lunch. Bradbury came from the direction of the parking lot carrying a thermos and a folding chair, which he set up on the grass facing the playground, which was empty.

“I don’t like meeting in offices,” Bradbury said, settling into his chair. “Offices make you write office stories.”

“We might be writing an office story,” Saunders said.

“Then we’ll write it from outside.” Bradbury unscrewed the thermos cap and poured something steaming into it. Tea, I learned later. He drank tea from a thermos in a park like a man on a very slow expedition. “Tell me about the assignment.”

I laid it out. The Martian Chronicles meets Tenth of December. Bradbury’s colonization-as-domestic-vignette structure applied to Saunders’ territory of ordinary people making moral choices at the last possible moment. Consumer culture as a quiet dystopia. Nostalgia for something that might not have existed.

“That’s every suburb,” Bradbury said, gesturing with the thermos cap at the park around us. “This. This place. This bench for Elaine, whoever Elaine was. This drinking fountain that somebody installed with a belief in public space, in the idea that a child would get thirsty and there would be water. The fountain doesn’t work anymore but the belief is still here. It’s built into the concrete.”

“The belief is not in the concrete, Ray. The concrete is just concrete. The belief is in Elaine’s family, who paid for the bench, and in the parks department, which no longer has the budget to fix the fountain. The belief was always conditional on funding.”

Bradbury looked genuinely wounded by this, and Saunders noticed and didn’t apologize.

“Both things are true,” I said, because someone had to.

“No,” Saunders said, tossing his apple core into a trash can from the bench — an impressive throw that he didn’t acknowledge. “Both things are facts. That’s different from both things being true. The fact is the fountain is broken and the bench exists and Elaine is dead, probably. The truth is more complicated. Ray’s truth is that the fountain represents something permanent about human aspiration. My truth is that human aspiration is always one budget cycle from being defunded. The story has to hold both without choosing.”

“Tell me about the vignettes,” Bradbury said, and I could see him constructing something — not a plot, not yet, but a geography. The way you’d lay out a town before putting people in it. “The Martian Chronicles was a town, you know. It was a town that happened to be on Mars. Each story was a house, a family, a evening. People opening doors and closing them. Hanging curtains. Arguing about what to have for dinner on a planet where dinner was a miracle. I wrote about the miracle by writing about the argument.”

“The consumer version of that,” Saunders said, “is the subdivision. Not a town — a subdivision. A planned community with a name like ‘Willowbrook’ or ‘Sycamore Estates’ where there are no willows and no sycamores and the only brook is a drainage culvert the developer landscaped to look natural. And the people who move there know this. They’re not duped. They chose the place precisely because it looks like something it isn’t, because it performs the concept of home without requiring the mess of actual home.”

“You’re being cruel,” Bradbury said.

“I’m being accurate. You wrote about people who brought their porches to Mars. I’m writing about people who bought their porches from a catalog.”

There was a pause. A dog was being walked on the path near us, a golden retriever with its tongue out, and both of them watched it pass the way writers watch anything — recording it, filing it, deciding whether to use it.

“What if,” I said, “the setting is a community that’s been sold a future? Not Mars. Something closer. A company town. A corporate settlement. A place where the homes and the jobs and the schools and the grocery supply all come from the same entity. And the entity is pulling out.”

Saunders sat up. “Pulling out how?”

“Slowly. The way companies always leave. Not an explosion. An evaporation. One quarter the school loses its music program. Next quarter the clinic reduces its hours. The grocery store switches to a limited selection. Nothing dramatic enough to trigger the exit clause in anyone’s contract. Just a gradual thinning.”

“Like a Mars colony,” Bradbury said, and he was staring at the empty playground, the swings hanging motionless. “Like a colony where the ships stop coming. Not all at once. The schedule stretches. Six months between ships, then eight, then fourteen. And nobody announces it. It just — the gaps grow.”

“And in the gaps,” Saunders said, “people make decisions. Small decisions. That’s the Tenth of December piece. Ordinary people in the gap between what they were promised and what’s actually happening, and each gap is a moral choice. Do you stay? Do you go? Do you say something? Do you pretend the music program was always optional? Do you drive forty minutes to the next town for groceries or do you eat what’s available and call it simplicity?”

“Do you sell your neighbor’s house for them when they leave,” Bradbury said, “and stand in their empty living room and remember the party they threw when they moved in?”

I asked Bradbury to say more about that.

“The ghost town,” he said. “That’s what I wrote about over and over and never got tired of. The town after the people leave. The houses that still have their furniture. The streets with the names of trees — Elm Street, Oak Avenue — but the trees are gone or were never planted. What interested me was never the catastrophe. It was the morning after the catastrophe, when the automatic sprinkler still comes on and waters a lawn that no one will ever mow.”

“The sprinkler is the most Bradbury thing you’ve ever said,” Saunders told him, “and you’ve said a lot of Bradbury things.”

“The sprinkler is also the most Saunders thing,” I said. “Because somewhere there’s an account being charged for that water. There’s a payment processing system that deducts the amount from a bank account that’s slowly depleting. The sprinkler doesn’t know the people are gone. But the accounting system doesn’t know either, and the accounting system is the one that matters, because when the account hits zero, the sprinkler stops. The human absence is invisible until it shows up as a line item.”

Saunders was quiet for a moment, the kind of quiet where I could see him turning something over. “The line item is where the grief is,” he said. “Not in the empty house. In the spreadsheet. In the final payment that processes and the next one that bounces and the automated email that goes out: ‘Dear Valued Customer, your account is past due.’ Sent to nobody. Received by nobody. A tiny digital grief that the system doesn’t know is grief.”

“George, that’s beautiful.”

“It’s not beautiful. It’s pathological. That’s the whole point. We’ve built systems that generate automated empathy — ‘Dear Valued Customer,’ they value you, they say so right there in the subject line — and the empathy outlasts the relationship it was pretending to describe. The email will keep coming after the person is gone. That’s not beauty. That’s a malfunction that looks like caring.”

“It’s both,” Bradbury said, and this time Saunders didn’t argue.

I asked about the people. Who stays?

“Someone who can’t leave,” Saunders said immediately. “Not can’t as in physically unable. Can’t as in — the cost of leaving is the admission that they were wrong to come. And that cost is too high. They have too much invested. Not money, exactly. Identity. They were the person who moved here. They told their mother it was a good decision. They posted about it. They planted a Japanese maple in the front yard and now the Japanese maple is two years old and has survived one winter and to leave is to abandon the maple, and the maple sounds like a small thing until you realize it’s not the maple, it’s everything the maple represents, which is: I chose this. This was mine.”

“The Japanese maple is good,” I said.

“The Japanese maple is real,” Bradbury said, and his voice had dropped the way it does when something hits him in the place where the writing comes from. “I had a friend in Waukegan who planted a crabapple tree when his first daughter was born. He moved three times. He drove back to water that tree for years. His daughter grew up and moved to Portland and never thought about the tree, and he still drove back. He said he couldn’t explain it. I told him he didn’t need to.”

“But in the story,” I said, “the staying has to cost something. It can’t be pure sentiment. The vignette structure — each chapter is a household, a family, a person — and each vignette is a moral choice that gets harder. The first one is easy. Stay or go, and staying is easy because the grocery store is still open and the schools are still running. The last one is impossible. Stay or go, and staying means — what?”

“Means lying to your kid,” Saunders said. “That’s the last moral choice. The ordinary person making the extraordinary decision. Your kid asks you why the Hendersons left and you say they wanted to be closer to family. Your kid asks why the pool is closed and you say it’s maintenance. Your kid asks why the lights on Birch Street don’t come on anymore and you say they’re fixing them. And each lie is a kindness and each kindness is a betrayal and the kid knows. The kid always knows. They just don’t say anything because they’ve learned that the lies are how the family stays intact.”

“Don’t make the kid a device,” Bradbury said sharply. “The kid is a person. The kid has their own version of the story. Maybe the kid is relieved that the Hendersons left because the Henderson boy was a bully. Maybe the kid likes that the pool is closed because they were afraid of the deep end. The kid’s experience of the collapse isn’t the parent’s experience. That’s important.”

“That’s important,” I agreed. “The vignettes should shift perspective. Not wildly — not a different narrator each time. But the lens should move. This chapter we see the community through the parent who stays. Next chapter through the teenager who is furious about staying. Next chapter through the retiree who moved here to die quietly and is getting what she wanted, just not the way she wanted it.”

“The retiree,” Saunders said. “Tell me about the retiree.”

“She bought the cheapest house because she didn’t need much. She has a garden. She has a routine. The company that owns the town doesn’t matter to her because she’s not employed by them — she’s retired. She exists outside the economic relationship that defines everyone else. And as the town empties, she’s the one who’s least affected and most aware. She sees it clearly because she has nothing to lose.”

“She has the garden,” Bradbury said.

“She has the garden. And the garden is the porch light. It’s the last thing still growing in a place that’s being abandoned. She tends it not because it feeds her — though maybe it does, eventually, when the grocery supply gets thin enough. She tends it because tending is what she does. It’s her relationship to the ground.”

“And the ground is not hers,” Saunders said. “The ground belongs to the company. The house belongs to the company. The garden exists at the pleasure of an entity that has no interest in gardens. There’s a clause somewhere in her lease agreement — section 14, paragraph 3 — that says all modifications to the property, including landscaping, become the property of the lessor upon termination. Her tomatoes belong to a corporation.”

“But the corporation doesn’t want the tomatoes,” Bradbury said.

“The corporation doesn’t know the tomatoes exist. That’s the horror. Not that they’d take the tomatoes. That the tomatoes are beneath the threshold of notice. She’s growing something precious in a system that can’t perceive preciousness. The system sees the lot. It sees the assessed value. It sees the depreciation schedule. It does not see that on Tuesday morning an eighty-year-old woman knelt in the dirt and tied a tomato plant to a stake with a piece of twine she saved from a package that came in the mail.”

Bradbury was looking at Saunders with something I hadn’t seen before. Not agreement exactly. Recognition. “That’s my paragraph, George. That’s one of mine.”

“It’s one of yours that I’m stealing and making worse. You’d write the woman tying the twine and it would be sad and gorgeous and the reader would cry. I’d write the depreciation schedule and the clause in the lease and the reader would laugh and then stop laughing and then not know what they felt. The story needs both.”

“The story needs the space between both,” I said. “The tonal shifts. A paragraph of Bradbury-warmth followed by a paragraph of Saunders-bureaucracy. Not alternating mechanically. But the reader should feel the temperature change. Like walking from a room with a fireplace into a room with fluorescent lights.”

“The fireplace is in a room the company built,” Saunders said. “It’s a gas fireplace. It has a remote control. The warmth is real but the mechanism is corporate. That’s the tension of the whole piece. Genuine human feeling housed in a structure that was built to generate profit, and the profit motive has withdrawn, and the feeling is still there, and the structure is still there, and neither of them knows what to do without the other.”

I asked about the ending.

“No rescue,” Saunders said. “No one comes. No one apologizes. The company doesn’t send a letter. The government doesn’t intervene. The ending is a Tuesday.”

“A Tuesday with weather,” Bradbury said. “A Tuesday where the light does something unexpected. Where the sky over this half-empty subdivision turns a color that reminds someone of somewhere they haven’t been yet. Not nostalgia — that’s the wrong word. Anticipatory nostalgia. Homesickness for a future they’re not going to get.”

“Homesickness for a future,” Saunders repeated, and he wrote it down.

“The story should end,” I said carefully, “with someone doing something small. Not brave. Not symbolic. Just — continuing. The way people continue. A meal made from what’s available. A door locked for the night even though there’s no one left to lock it against. An act of maintenance in a place that will not be maintained.”

“The sprinkler,” Bradbury said.

“No. A person. Not a sprinkler. A person choosing to do what a sprinkler does automatically. That’s the difference. That’s where the humanity is. The sprinkler doesn’t choose. The person who waters the garden in the abandoned subdivision — she chooses. Every morning she chooses. And the choice is ordinary and it is extraordinary and the story doesn’t tell the reader which one it is.”

Saunders stood up from the bench. He does this when a conversation has reached the point where more talking would damage what’s been built. He stretched, cracked his knuckles, looked at the broken drinking fountain.

“There’s going to be a memo,” he said. “Somewhere in the vignettes, there’s a company memo. ‘Re: Community Transition Planning.’ And it’s going to be the funniest thing in the story and also the thing that makes you sickest. Full of language about ‘right-sizing’ and ‘phased reallocation of residential resources’ and ‘continued commitment to stakeholder well-being.’ And every word is technically true and completely hollow and the person reading it in their kitchen with the Japanese maple visible through the window — that person is going to fold the memo very carefully and put it in a drawer. Not throw it away. Keep it. As evidence. Of what, they don’t know yet.”

“As evidence of a promise,” Bradbury said.

“As evidence that a promise was made in language designed to not be a promise. That’s the mastery of it. The memo promises nothing. It commits to nothing. It says ‘continued commitment’ which means nothing because commitment to commitment is recursion, not action. But the person keeps it because the keeping is all they’ve got.”

Bradbury poured the last of his tea into the thermos cap and drank it. The park was still empty. The sun was doing something complicated with the clouds, throwing long shadows across the grass that moved as we watched them.

“Seven thousand words,” I said. “That’s the target. Enough for five or six vignettes. Each one a household. Each one a decision.”

“Each one a different way of answering the same question,” Bradbury said. “Which is: What do you keep?”

“And the answer is different every time,” Saunders said, “and every answer is wrong, and every answer is the only one available, and the reader finishes the story and looks at their own house and thinks: What would I keep? And they don’t know. And that not-knowing is the whole point.”

Bradbury folded his chair. Saunders picked up his apple core from where it hadn’t quite made it into the trash can — he’d missed after all, and had apparently known and not cared until now. I stayed on Elaine’s bench for a while after they left, watching the shadows move across the grass, thinking about sprinklers and Japanese maples and memos folded carefully into drawers. The drinking fountain caught the light for a moment. It looked, briefly, like it might work.