Drafts Beneath the Plaster
A discussion between Daphne du Maurier and Mary Shelley
We met in a house that was being demolished. That was Shelley’s idea — she wanted somewhere that smelled of consequence, she said, and she was right. The building had been a minor estate on the Essex coast, Victorian, brick and flint, and the salvage crew had already taken the fireplaces and the stair rail. What remained was structure without adornment: bare joists, torn lath, plaster dust on every surface like a season’s first frost. Du Maurier arrived late and stood in the front hall for a long time without speaking, one gloved hand resting on the wall where wallpaper had been stripped to show three earlier layers beneath.
“Three families,” she said. “At least. Each one covered the last.”
Shelley was already upstairs. I could hear her footsteps through the ceiling, irregular, pausing where the floorboards had been pulled. I had set up a table — a folding camp table, ridiculous in that gutted dining room — and laid out my notes. They looked absurd against the rubble. Du Maurier glanced at them, at me, and then at the window where the grey estuary light came in without glass to soften it.
“You want to write a gothic romance,” she said.
“I want to write something that uses the architecture of gothic romance. The heroine who arrives at a house. The husband or lover who is not what he seems. The house that keeps something.”
“That is a gothic romance.”
I opened my mouth and closed it. She was not wrong.
Shelley came down the exposed staircase with plaster in her hair. She had found something — a child’s shoe, leather, buttoned, the sole worn through at the ball of the foot. She set it on my camp table between us and sat in the one chair I’d brought. Du Maurier remained standing. I noticed she had not removed her gloves.
“The shoe is a cliche,” du Maurier said.
“The shoe is a shoe,” Shelley replied. “A child wore it. The sole is worn from running. It was left behind when everything else was taken. Whether it is a cliche depends entirely on what the writer does with it, which is to say, it depends on whether the writer sees the child or the symbol.”
“I see both.”
“You always do. That is your gift and your limitation.”
The silence that followed was not comfortable. I let it sit. Outside, a gull screamed at something in the mud.
“Frame narrative,” I said, because I needed to steer us somewhere before the silence became the meeting. “The Wuthering Heights element. The story told through layers, through mediation. Nelly Dean telling Lockwood, Lockwood telling us. What if the gothic romance is told through a similar remove — someone telling the story after the fact, and the telling itself is unreliable?”
Du Maurier’s expression shifted. Something opened in it. “Unreliable in what way?”
“In the way that — the heroine can’t see what the reader can. She describes the house, the husband, her own feelings, and something in the account doesn’t add up. Not because she’s lying. Because she has constructed a version of events that she can survive inside.”
“That is every narrator I have ever written,” du Maurier said quietly.
“Not every narrator,” Shelley said. “Your unnamed narrator in the Manderley book — she lies to herself about the nature of her husband’s feeling for the dead wife. But she knows she is lying. There is a layer of awareness beneath the performance. That is what makes her devastating. She chooses the comfortable version, and you can feel her choosing.”
Du Maurier pulled off one glove, then the other, folding them precisely. “Yes. All right. Yes. The narrator who constructs her own ignorance because the alternative is unbearable. But that is a psychological realism, not a gothic device. What makes it gothic?”
I said: “The house confirms the lie.”
They both looked at me.
“What I mean is — in a psychological novel, the unreliable narrator is alone in her distortion. The world is real and she is the one failing to see it clearly. But in a gothic romance, the house participates. The corridors arrange themselves to support her version. The rooms she doesn’t enter stay quiet. The servants corroborate. So when the truth finally breaks through, it isn’t just that she was wrong about her husband — it’s that the entire physical world she trusted was complicit.”
Shelley leaned forward. The child’s shoe shifted on the table between us. “Now you are describing something I understand. The created thing that becomes autonomous. That develops its own logic. Frankenstein’s creature was not what Victor intended, but once made, it had its own eloquence, its own argument for existing. If the house becomes something the husband made — not built, but made, in the way one makes a world for someone, curated, controlled —”
“A vivarium,” du Maurier said.
“A vivarium. Yes. The husband has created an environment for the heroine. Everything she sees has been placed there for her to see. The rooms she is welcome in, the view from the window, the version of his history that the servants tell. And she is not stupid — she is perceptive and sensitive and she reads every detail — but every detail she reads has been authored.”
I was writing so fast my handwriting was deteriorating into something only I could parse. “So the unreliable narration isn’t a flaw in the heroine. It’s a feature of the house. She’s narrating accurately what she’s been given to see.”
“And the reader,” du Maurier said, something hard and bright in her voice now, “the reader is in the position of — what? Standing outside the vivarium? Seeing the glass?”
“The reader sees what she cannot admit,” Shelley said. “The small discrepancies. A room she mentions but does not describe. A conversation that ends before the sentence is finished. A door she walks past daily and never opens, and she never remarks on the fact that she never opens it, which is the most remarkable thing of all.”
“That is Jane Eyre,” I said. “The house’s secret. Rochester’s secret. But Jane eventually breaks through — she hears the laughter, she finds the room. What if our heroine doesn’t break through? What if the story ends and she is still inside the version he made for her?”
Du Maurier turned to the window. The estuary was going silver in the late light, mud flats shining. “That is more frightening than any revelation,” she said. “The locked room thrown open — the madwoman, the monster, the corpse — that is a release. The reader gets to feel the horror and then it is over. But if the heroine never finds the room, if she goes on living inside the constructed version, then the horror is the reader’s alone. The reader carries it out of the book.”
“Shelley?” I said.
She was turning the child’s shoe in her hands, examining the stitching. “I am thinking about creation and love. Victor Frankenstein loved his creature before he made it. The idea of it. The possibility. It was only the reality he couldn’t bear. What if the husband in this story truly loves the heroine — not as a deception, not as a performance, but genuinely — and it is the love itself that is the gothic element? He loves her so completely that he cannot allow her to see anything that might change how she sees him. The house is an act of love. A monstrous act of love.”
“God,” I said. I put down my pen.
“You see the problem,” Shelley said, almost smiling. “If the husband is simply a villain, the story is simple. The heroine is a victim, the house is a prison, the reader knows where to direct their anger. But if the husband’s creation of this controlled world comes from genuine devotion — if the horror and the love are the same gesture —”
“Then the heroine cannot break free without breaking something real,” du Maurier finished. “Not a chain. A bond. The distinction matters.”
“Does she know?” I asked. “On some level. Below the narration. Below what she tells us.”
Du Maurier looked at me for a long time. “She knows in her body. She knows in the way she sleeps — badly, on the edge of the bed, waking to sounds she immediately rationalizes. She knows in the way her handwriting changes when she writes letters to people outside the house — smaller, more careful, as if she’s composing something for inspection. She knows in the way she describes her husband’s face. She says his eyes are kind. She says it too often.”
“But that raises the Jane Eyre question,” I said. “The heroine’s independence within constraint. Jane is governess at Thornfield — powerless in every material sense — but she refuses to surrender her moral judgment. She stands in front of Rochester and tells him she is his equal. Our heroine would need that same spine, wouldn’t she? Otherwise she’s just a victim.”
“No,” du Maurier said, and the word came fast, almost angry. “That is precisely the wrong frame. Jane’s independence is a weapon she carries visibly. Rochester can see it. The reader can see it. It is announced, celebrated. But our heroine’s independence, if she has it, must be invisible. Perhaps invisible even to herself. She chooses which curtains to open each morning. She walks the garden in a pattern she designed. She prepares her toast a particular way and will not change it. These are not grand assertions of selfhood. They are the last territory she holds.”
Shelley made a noise — half agreement, half frustration. “You are both thinking of independence as resistance. What if it isn’t? What if her independence is the very thing that keeps her inside the vivarium? She could leave. The door is not locked. She has money, or a family elsewhere, or a skill that could sustain her. She stays because she has chosen to stay, and the choosing is the independence. That is what makes it unbearable.”
I stared at my notes. “Independence as the mechanism of the trap.”
“Jane Eyre leaves Thornfield,” Shelley said. “She walks out onto the moor with nothing. She nearly dies. And that departure is the moral center of the novel — it proves she can survive outside the house, and therefore her eventual return is a free choice, not a capitulation. But what if our heroine never leaves? What if the story gives her every opportunity, and she stays, and she narrates her staying as contentment?”
“The reader would hate her,” I said.
“The reader would hate themselves for hating her,” du Maurier corrected. “Because the reader would recognize the logic. We have all stayed somewhere longer than we should have, for reasons that sounded reasonable at the time, and the voice we used to explain it to ourselves sounded exactly like her voice.”
Shelley pressed her palm flat against the exposed brickwork, as if testing its temperature. “Then the romance element must bear weight. Real weight. If she stays only out of inertia or fear, the story is a case study. If she stays because she loves him — genuinely, with full knowledge of what the love costs her — that is gothic romance. Love as the secret the house is keeping. Love as the thing the reader cannot quite forgive.”
“And the frame narrative,” I said. “Who is she telling this to? Why? If this is her account — a letter, a journal, a confession to a listener years later — then the very act of telling means something has shifted. She wouldn’t narrate a life she was still fully inside.”
“Unless she is,” Shelley said. “Unless the telling is another room in the house. Another space he has prepared for her. ‘Write your story, my darling. It will do you good.’ And she writes it, and we read it, and we are inside the vivarium too.”
I felt something cold move through the room. Not a draft — the windows were already open to the sky. Something architectural. A settling.
“I don’t like that,” du Maurier said. “I don’t like it because it’s true.”
Shelley set the child’s shoe back on the table. “The generational element. Wuthering Heights has it — the first Catherine and the second, the story rhyming across a generation. What if this house has had a previous heroine? Not a dead wife, exactly — that’s too close to Rebecca and Rochester both. But a previous occupant. A woman who lived in these rooms before. And our heroine finds traces — not a shoe, nothing so obvious — but a smell in a wardrobe. A stain on a ceiling that looks like it was scrubbed but not well enough. An inscription inside a drawer: a date, a set of initials, and a word she cannot read because it has been scratched out.”
“Who scratched it out?” I asked.
“That is the question the heroine would ask,” Shelley said. “The question the reader should ask is different. The reader should ask: why does the heroine not ask?”
Du Maurier made a sound. Not quite a laugh. “Because asking would end the version of events she can survive inside. You said it yourself. She has constructed a world she can inhabit. The scratched-out word is the edge of that world. She looks at it, and she looks away, and she goes downstairs to dinner and tells us the lamb was overdone.”
“The lamb was overdone,” I repeated, writing it down.
“You’re going to use that,” du Maurier said. It was not a question.
“I’m going to use everything. That’s what this is for.”
Shelley stood and walked to the far wall, where someone had pulled away a panel to reveal the brickwork beneath. She ran her fingers over it. “There is a technical question I want to raise. The unreliable narration — we’ve said it comes from the heroine’s refusal to see. But there is another possibility, and it changes the architecture of the story completely. What if the heroine’s narration is reliable and the house is genuinely what she describes? What if the uncanny details we assume are clues — the scratched inscription, the bad sleep, the too-frequent assurances that his eyes are kind — what if those are simply the furniture of an anxious mind, and the husband is exactly who she thinks he is?”
Du Maurier turned sharply. “You can’t do that.”
“Why not?”
“Because the reader will feel cheated.”
“The reader will feel cheated because they have been trained to decode. They walk into a gothic romance and they begin translating, just as you said about the house. ‘The scratched word means something sinister.’ ‘The husband’s kindness is a mask.’ What if the most gothic thing the story can do is refuse to confirm the reader’s suspicion? The horror is not in the house. The horror is in the reading.”
I looked between them. Du Maurier was furious — jaw tight, fingers gripping the windowsill. Shelley was calm in the way she gets when she knows she has said something that cannot be taken back.
“You can’t have both,” du Maurier said. “You can’t have the house be a vivarium and also have the house be innocent. The reader needs a ground truth.”
“Victor needed a ground truth,” Shelley said. “He needed the creature to be a monster. It was the only way he could justify his revulsion. But the creature was eloquent. The creature read Milton. The ground truth kept shifting, and that is why the story still unsettles. Not because of the horror — because of the ambiguity.”
I didn’t know what to say. They were both right, which meant I was going to have to write a story that held both possibilities without collapsing into either. I stared at the child’s shoe on the table. “What about the landscape? Du Maurier, your landscapes are characters — the Cornish coast, the weather over Manderley. Shelley, your settings are more intellectual, more interior. Where does this house sit?”
Du Maurier’s hand was still on the windowsill. “Coastal,” she said. “There is no question. The house must be near water. Not a lake — lakes are contained, they give you the illusion of surveying the whole. An estuary. Mud and tide. Something that changes twice a day so that the view from the window is never the same view. She describes it faithfully, and the reader understands that she is describing something fundamentally unstable, and she does not remark on the instability.”
“I defer on the landscape,” Shelley said. “My settings have always been stages for ideas rather than presences in their own right. But I want the house to have a laboratory quality. Not literally — no bubbling retorts. But the sense that someone has been working in this house. That the house is not merely inhabited but used. Tools in a drawer that don’t belong in a domestic space. A chemical smell in one room that the heroine attributes to cleaning fluid.”
“Science as transgression,” I said.
“Creation as transgression,” Shelley corrected. “The husband has made something. Not a creature — I am not interested in repeating myself. But something. A practice, an experiment, a project that requires the house to be sealed against outside observation. And the heroine’s presence is either part of the experiment or an impediment to it, and we do not learn which.”
Du Maurier finally sat down, pulling a chair from against the wall, its legs scraping through plaster dust. “I want to be careful here. The Gothic is full of husbands with dark secrets in locked rooms. If we are not precise about what this husband has done or is doing, we fall into the generic. The particular horror must be particular.”
“Agreed,” Shelley said. “But I do not think we should decide what it is. Not here. Not now. The story will know.”
I closed my notebook. The light had changed again. The estuary was darkening, the mud going from silver to something closer to iron. Somewhere in the house above us, a joist creaked — not from footsteps, just from the building settling into its own dismantlement.
“I think the heroine tells us the truth,” I said slowly. “Every word she writes is accurate. And I think the house is exactly what she describes. And I think the reader will see something in her account that she cannot see, not because she is lying, but because the shape of what she tells us — what she chooses to mention, what she lingers on, what she passes over in a single clause — the shape of the telling is the secret. The content is true. The architecture is the lie.”
Du Maurier said nothing for a long time. Then: “The architecture is the lie. Yes. Fine.”
It did not sound like agreement. It sounded like a concession she would spend the rest of the evening regretting.
Shelley picked up the child’s shoe and put it in her coat pocket. “I’m keeping this,” she said. “You don’t need it. Your heroine will find her own objects.” She paused at the door. “One more thing. The ending. Do not let her wake up. Whatever you do with the frame narrative, whatever mediation you choose — do not give her the revelation. Give it to the reader, or give it to no one. But she remains inside. The house stands.”
“Even if the house is being demolished around her?” I said, gesturing at the stripped walls, the absent staircase, the sky showing through the ceiling.
“Especially then,” Shelley said. And she walked out into the Essex dusk, and I could hear her footsteps on the gravel for a long time, longer than the distance should have allowed.
Du Maurier stayed. She was looking at the layers of wallpaper, her fingers tracing the border of the earliest pattern — something floral, faded to grey.
“The previous woman,” she said. “The one who was here before. Don’t make her a ghost. Don’t make her a warning. Make her ordinary. Make her someone who lived in these rooms and was content, or close enough to content, and then left. The most frightening thing about a house is not what happened in it. It’s that someone could leave.”
I nodded. I did not write it down. Some things you have to carry differently.
Outside, the tide was coming in. I could hear it finding the channels in the mud, filling them with a sound like whispered speech — intimate, insistent, impossible to make out.