Performing for the Surveillance Camera You Installed Yourself

A discussion between Alyssa Cole and Gillian Flynn


Flynn was already seated when I arrived at the wine bar in Cobble Hill, a place with exposed brick and small plates that cost what my grocery run does. She had a glass of something red and had already ordered another, which she slid across the table to me without asking whether I wanted it. I did. I was nervous.

Cole was late, which surprised me. She’d been the one to suggest meeting in person rather than over email. When she came in, she was carrying a canvas tote bag printed with the name of a bookstore that no longer existed, and she set it on the empty chair like a third participant.

“That’s Greenlight Books,” Flynn said, pointing at the bag.

“It’s from the original location. Before the expansion.” Cole sat down. “It’s a conversation piece. Or a eulogy. Depending on your disposition.”

“I like that,” Flynn said. “Carrying around the corpse of a neighborhood institution. Very on-brand for what we’re doing.”

“We’re not doing a corpse story,” Cole said, and her voice had the particular evenness that I was learning meant she was already five moves ahead in the argument. “We’re doing a love story in a neighborhood that’s being eaten alive. Those are different.”

“Are they?” Flynn said.

I took a drink of the wine. It was good. I couldn’t afford it. “So,” I said. “The basic idea. A gentrifying neighborhood — probably Brooklyn, maybe Crown Heights or Bed-Stuy — where longtime residents have been disappearing. Not violently. Just leaving. Moving out, moving on. Except maybe not all of them are choosing to leave.”

“Right,” Cole said. “And two neighbors start an affair. They live in the same building, maybe the same floor. He’s been there a while. She moved in recently — one of the new arrivals, the ones the building’s old tenants look at sideways.”

“She’s part of the problem,” Flynn said, with a kind of relish I wasn’t sure how to read. “That’s critical. She’s gentrification in the flesh. She moved in because the rent was finally affordable for her, which means it became unaffordable for someone else. She’s complicit and she knows it and she’s done a very thorough job of not thinking about it.”

Cole leaned forward. “And he — he’s been in the building for years. Inherited the lease from a relative, maybe a great-aunt. He knows the block the way you know a body you’ve lived in. He remembers the Korean grocery that became a juice bar. He remembers the old women who sat on the stoop and the specific week they stopped sitting there.”

“He’s a monument to what the neighborhood was,” Flynn said.

“He’s a person,” Cole said. “Not a monument. Monuments don’t pay rent.”

Flynn conceded this with a nod that cost her nothing. “Fine. He’s a person who carries the neighborhood’s history whether he wants to or not. And she’s attracted to that. She likes that he remembers the names of people who used to live in their building. It makes him feel rooted. Real.”

“And he’s attracted to her,” I said, “because —”

“Because she’s sharp,” Cole said. “Because she asks questions other newcomers don’t ask. She noticed the memorial shrine on the first floor, the one with the dried flowers and the photo of the woman who used to live in 4B. She asked about it. Nobody else who moved in after the renovations ever asked.”

“She’s a better version of the colonizer,” Flynn said. “Which is the most dangerous kind.”

Cole’s jaw tightened. I could feel the temperature change. “I wouldn’t use that word.”

“Colonizer? It’s accurate.”

“It’s a word that flattens. A woman who moves to a neighborhood she can afford isn’t the same as imperial conquest. The systems that displaced the original residents are the colonizers. She’s a person navigating a system she didn’t build.”

“But benefits from.”

“But benefits from. Yes. And that’s what makes her interesting. She’s inside the machine and she’s starting to see the gears.”

I wrote that down — inside the machine, seeing the gears — and then crossed it out because it was too neat. “So they start investigating together. The missing residents. They find records, or he tells her stories, and she starts cross-referencing with public data — property transfers, LLC purchases, patterns that look like coincidence but aren’t.”

“That’s the Cole engine,” Flynn said, gesturing with her glass. “The systemic part. The conspiracy. But I want to talk about the Flynn engine, if we’re being proprietary about it.”

“Go ahead.”

“The Flynn engine is that they’re sleeping together and they don’t trust each other. Not in the abstract. Specifically. She looks at his phone when he leaves the room. He notices that she only asks about certain missing tenants — the ones whose apartments were renovated, the ones whose disappearances coincide with a particular development company’s acquisitions. She’s doing research, sure. But from his perspective, she could be doing reconnaissance.”

“For whom?” Cole asked.

“For the other side. For the developers. For whoever’s making these people vanish. How does he know she isn’t a plant? A woman who shows up, asks all the right questions, seems to care about the neighborhood’s history, and sleeps with the man who has the most institutional memory on the block? That’s an intelligence operation.”

Cole was quiet for a moment. I watched her absorb this. “That’s good,” she said, and it clearly cost her something. “I don’t like it, but it’s good. Because the flip side is also true. From her perspective, he’s the one who’s been there through all these disappearances. He knows every person who left. He knows which apartments turned over. What if he’s the one feeding information to the developers? What if his rootedness is a cover for complicity?”

“Mutual suspicion as foreplay,” Flynn said. “That’s what I do.”

“That’s what you do,” Cole agreed, not entirely as a compliment.

I set my pen down. Something was bothering me. “Here’s where I keep tripping. If they’re both suspicious of each other, and rightfully so — if there are genuine reasons for each of them to doubt the other — then the romance has to live alongside that doubt. It can’t be despite the doubt. It has to be woven through it.”

“Love as an intelligence failure,” Flynn said.

“No,” Cole said. “Love as the thing that makes you keep investigating even when you’re afraid of what you’ll find. There’s a difference. Flynn wants the love to be a kind of defeat. I want it to be a kind of stubbornness.”

“Can it be both?”

Neither of them answered me.

Flynn ordered another round. The wine bar was filling up with people who looked like they worked in creative fields and had opinions about natural wine. Cole watched them with an expression I’d come to recognize — she was reading a room the way other people read a menu, noting who was comfortable and who was performing comfort.

“Let’s talk about the protagonist’s assumption,” I said. “The risk card says the protagonist is fundamentally wrong about something. Their central belief about the situation is incorrect.”

Flynn sat up straighter. “Oh, I love this. Tell me more.”

“One of them — whichever we decide is the primary point of view — has to be operating on a wrong assumption. Something they believe completely, something that drives their actions, and it turns out to be incorrect. Not a small misunderstanding. A foundational error.”

“She thinks the neighborhood’s disappearances are about real estate,” Cole said immediately. “She thinks it’s a gentrification conspiracy — developers pushing people out, maybe with threats, maybe with buyouts that aren’t really voluntary, maybe something darker. That’s her framework. That’s her entire lens.”

“And she’s wrong?” I said.

“She’s wrong about the mechanism. Not wrong that something is happening — something is happening. But her assumption that it’s a top-down conspiracy, that there’s a boardroom somewhere with a map of the block and a plan to displace every original tenant — that’s the story she tells herself because it makes the most sense to her. It’s a pattern she recognizes from a hundred other neighborhoods.”

Flynn was nodding, slowly, with the look of someone being handed a gift she wasn’t sure she deserved. “So she builds this entire narrative — the romance, the investigation, her understanding of him and his role — all on an architecture that’s wrong. She sees systemic evil because that’s what she knows how to see. And the truth is messier than a conspiracy.”

“The truth is always messier than a conspiracy,” Cole said. “Conspiracies are comforting. They mean someone is in charge. The scarier version is that the neighborhood is being devoured by a thousand small decisions, none of them coordinated, all of them inevitable. No villain. Just gravity.”

“But that’s not a thriller,” I said. “If there’s no conspiracy, there’s no suspense.”

“There can be a conspiracy,” Cole said. “There can be bad actors. But her mistake is in thinking the conspiracy explains everything. She fits every data point into her framework, and some of them don’t fit, and she forces them. She ignores the residents who left voluntarily. She doesn’t want to hear that some people chose to take the buyout, that some of them were relieved to go. She needs the story to be simple because simple means fixable.”

“And it bends the romance,” Flynn said. She was leaning back now, legs crossed, one finger tracing the rim of her glass. “Because she needs him to be either an ally or an enemy. Those are the only two positions in her framework. And he’s neither. He’s a man who’s lived through the slow dissolution of his neighborhood and has feelings about it that don’t fit into her categories. He’s angry, sure. But he’s also tired. And part of him — the part she can’t see because her framework doesn’t allow for it — part of him has already grieved the block. He’s in the acceptance stage of a loss she’s still fighting.”

“That would infuriate her,” I said.

“It should. Because from her perspective, his acceptance looks like surrender. Or worse — like he was in on it all along. If he’s not angry, he must be complicit. She can’t imagine a third option.”

“Which is?”

“That he loved a place and the place changed and he’s still standing there.” Cole’s voice was quieter now. “That’s not complicity. It’s endurance. But she can’t see it because her whole identity is built on the fight. If there’s nobody to fight, what is she doing here?”

I felt something shift in the conversation. The wine bar noise was receding. A couple at the next table was having a birthday celebration, and someone was taking a photo of a cake, and the flash went off, and none of us reacted.

“So the wrongness is structural,” I said. “Her fundamental assumption shapes everything — how she interprets his behavior, how she reads the investigation, how she understands the romance. And when the assumption cracks, it doesn’t just change the plot. It changes what the love story was about.”

“It changes who she was in the relationship,” Flynn said. “Because she wasn’t being authentic either. She thought she was the righteous one, the one with clear eyes, the one who could see the conspiracy he was too embedded to notice. And that self-image was its own performance. Cool girl, gentrification edition.”

Cole reacted to the phrase physically, a kind of flinch that turned into a laugh. “Cool girl, gentrification edition. That’s awful.”

“It’s accurate, though. The performance of being the good white gentrifier — or whatever she is, whatever her race — the performance of being the newcomer who actually cares, who does the work, who reads the history. And some of that is real. But some of it is theater. She’s performing her own goodness, partly for him, partly for herself.”

“And the performance collapses,” I said, “when she finds out her framework was wrong. When she realizes she was building a conspiracy out of confirmation bias, fitting the evidence to the story she already wanted to tell.”

“Which is what diary Amy does,” Flynn said. “She constructs a narrative that serves her needs and presents it as truth. The diary is a performance of victimhood. Your protagonist’s investigation is a performance of righteousness. Same mechanism, different costume.”

Cole took a long breath. “I want to push back on something. Not disagree exactly, but push. The systemic critique isn’t wrong just because she’s wrong about the specifics. Gentrification is displacement. The neighborhood is being devoured. Her error isn’t in seeing that — it’s in needing it to be orchestrated rather than organic. The violence is real. She’s just wrong about who’s holding the knife.”

“Maybe nobody’s holding the knife,” Flynn said. “Maybe the knife is on the table and everyone’s bumping into it.”

“That’s bleaker than anything I’ve written,” Cole said.

“Thank you.”

“It wasn’t a compliment.”

I’d been thinking about how the romance survives this — how two people who’ve been performing for each other, who’ve been using the investigation as a kind of courtship ritual, can find something real underneath the wreckage of their assumptions. And I didn’t know. I genuinely didn’t know.

“What happens when she finds out she’s wrong?” I asked. “Does she tell him?”

“She can’t,” Flynn said. “Not immediately. Because admitting she’s wrong about the conspiracy means admitting she was wrong about him — about what his calmness meant, about what his acceptance meant. She has to restructure her entire understanding of the man she’s sleeping with. That takes time. That takes pride.”

“And during that time, she’s still in the relationship,” Cole said. “Still in his bed. Still in his building. But now she’s carrying the knowledge that her framework collapsed and she hasn’t told him. Now she’s the one with the secret. She became the thing she was afraid he was.”

“God,” I said. I meant it.

“The neighborhood’s still changing around them,” Cole continued. “People are still leaving. The juice bar is still where the grocery was. The shrine on the first floor — someone took it down. The new management. And she has to sit with the fact that naming the enemy didn’t stop any of it. That her investigation was — not useless, but insufficient. Like bringing a magnifying glass to an earthquake.”

“A magnifying glass to an earthquake,” Flynn repeated. “That’s the title.”

“No it isn’t.”

“It should be. It’s the whole story. The precision of her suspicion applied to a problem that operates on a completely different scale.”

“The romance, though,” I said, because someone had to say it. “Where does it go? If her assumption cracked, if his acceptance isn’t surrender, if her performance of righteousness collapsed — what’s left?”

“Two people in a building that’s being sold,” Cole said. “That’s what’s left. Two people who lied to each other for different reasons and now have to decide if the thing underneath the lies is worth keeping. That’s every romance. Strip away the gentrification and the conspiracy and the performance — that’s the question. Was any of it real?”

“I don’t know yet,” Flynn said, and for the first time she sounded like she wasn’t performing either. “I think the answer has to be: some of it. Not all of it. The sex was real. The curiosity was real. But the trust was built on a framework that turned out to be wrong, and trust built on a wrong foundation is — what? Salvageable? I don’t know. I don’t think I’m the right person to answer that. My couples don’t salvage.”

“Mine do,” Cole said. “Sometimes. When they’re willing to look at the rubble honestly.”

“Rubble,” Flynn said. “Your romance metaphors are bleak, Cole.”

“My romance metaphors are accurate. Love after disillusionment is built on rubble. That’s not bleak. That’s foundation.”

The birthday table erupted in singing. Someone was off-key. The candles on the cake flickered in the draft from the door. Cole gathered her tote bag — the dead bookstore, the eulogy or conversation piece — and stood.

“One more thing about the wrongness,” she said. “Her mistake can’t be stupid. It can’t be something a careful person wouldn’t make. It has to be the kind of error that comes from intelligence applied in the wrong direction. She’s not a fool. She’s a smart woman who saw a pattern that wasn’t there because the pattern she was looking for was real in every other neighborhood she’d ever studied. She was right everywhere else. She was just wrong here.”

“The most dangerous kind of wrong,” Flynn said. “Wrong with evidence.”

“Wrong with evidence,” I repeated, and wrote it down, knowing it was the kind of phrase that sounds like a thesis and is actually a wound. The birthday singing ended. Someone applauded. Cole was already at the door, bag over her shoulder, not looking back.

Flynn finished her wine and stood up. “One thing,” she said. “Don’t let the systemic stuff swallow the bedroom. The best scene in this story should be a scene where they’re in bed and one of them says something that could be a confession or could be pillow talk and neither of them knows which. That’s where the suspense lives. Not in the records and the LLC filings. In the pause between I love you and what does that mean.”

“Cole would say the LLC filings are where the real violence is.”

“Cole would be right. But the reader will remember the bedroom.” She put on her coat. “They always remember the bedroom.”

She left. I sat with the bill and the empty glasses and my notebook, which had more crossed-out lines than keeper lines. The wine bar was doing last call, which seemed early until I realized it was almost eleven. Somewhere in the neighborhood, a building was being sold. Somewhere a tenant was deciding whether to fight or to go. Somewhere two people were lying next to each other in the dark, each one listening to the other’s breathing, each one wondering whether the body beside them was a refuge or a trap.

I didn’t have an answer. I had two empty chairs and the ghost of an argument that neither side had won, and a protagonist who was wrong in the most convincing way possible, and a love story built on the wreckage of a theory, and Flynn’s voice saying they always remember the bedroom, and Cole’s voice saying love after disillusionment is built on rubble, and neither of them quite addressing what the other meant.