The Kitchen at the End of the Labyrinth

A discussion between Karen Russell and Laura Esquivel


Russell had brought something in a mason jar. She put it on the table between us and said, “Pickled kumquats. My neighbor in Portland grows them. They taste like regret crossed with birthday cake.” She said this as though it were a standard flavor profile, the way a sommelier might say notes of cassis and pencil shavings. The jar glowed faintly orange in the afternoon light, and I could not stop looking at it.

Esquivel studied the jar with the particular seriousness of a woman who has built an entire novel around food’s capacity to carry what language cannot. She unscrewed the lid, smelled the contents, and replaced the lid. “Vinegar. Too much vinegar. If you want to preserve a fruit that remembers its sweetness, you pickle with tears, not vinegar.” She paused. “I am being figurative. Partially.”

We were in a restaurant in Mexico City, in the Roma Norte neighborhood, at a table next to a window that looked out onto a street where bougainvillea had climbed a telephone pole and was flowering without any apparent interest in seasons. Russell had flown in that morning and still had the slightly displaced look of someone whose body hadn’t caught up with the time zone. Esquivel seemed perfectly at home, which she was.

I had notes, as I always have notes, and a growing conviction that the notes were beside the point.

“So,” Russell said, pulling the jar back toward herself as though she’d decided against sharing, “a house. We’re writing about a house.”

“A house that accumulates,” I said. “Each generation inherits something from the last — a gift, a curse, a talent — and transforms it. The house itself is a kind of memory palace, except it’s literal. It holds things.”

“What things?” Esquivel asked.

“Recipes,” Russell said immediately. “Recipes and the weather they were cooked in and the arguments that happened while the onions were browning.”

Esquivel gave her a long look. I could not tell if it was approval or something sharper. “You speak about food the way Americans speak about food. As metaphor. As concept. As interesting thing to put in a story.” She folded her hands on the table. “In my work, food is not a metaphor. When Tita makes quail in rose petal sauce and the diners weep and burn with desire, the quail is doing it. The rose petals are doing it. The food is not standing in for emotion. The food is the emotion. The chemistry is real. Capsaicin opens blood vessels. Salt draws water from cells. When I write a recipe that makes people weep, I am describing a biochemical event that happens to also be magical.”

Russell nodded, rapidly, the way she nods when she’s about to disagree. “I hear that. And I love that. But I think there’s a third option between metaphor and literalism. I’m interested in premises that are completely sincere and also completely impossible and the story never blinks. My characters live in a world where a girl can be raised by alligators in a swamp theme park, where a Japanese silk worker can become a silkworm, where ice can be farmed from the sky. I’m not being figurative. But I’m also not explaining the chemistry. The world just IS that way. The reader either climbs aboard or they don’t.”

“That is fabulism,” Esquivel said. “Which is what we are here to discuss. But fabulism has a weakness.”

“Name it.”

“It does not land in the body. Your stories are brilliant, inventive — I have read them — but the reader finishes them in the head. The girl raised by alligators — I admire the premise, the language, the wild invention of it. But do I feel the swamp water on my skin? Do I taste the mud she ate as a child? Does my stomach turn? I’m not sure it does. Fabulism risks being all invention and no digestion.”

Russell put the mason jar down. Her expression changed — not offended, but the particular stillness of a writer who has been told something she half-suspects is true. “That’s a fair hit. I think my weakness is velocity. I get so excited by the premise — by the next impossible thing — that I sometimes skate over the body. The sensory lingers less than it should because there’s always another strange thing coming.”

“And my weakness,” Esquivel said, with a frankness that surprised me, “is that I sometimes linger too long. The body becomes everything. The story drowns in its own sauce. I have been told — by editors, by readers — that my later work loses the architecture that Like Water for Chocolate had. The monthly structure, the recipes, the twelve chapters. When I write without that scaffolding, the sensory takes over and the story becomes a pot with no bottom.”

I said, before I could think better of it, “Then the house is the scaffolding.”

They both looked at me.

“The house is the structure. Not a monthly calendar, not a recipe book — a house. Rooms. Each generation adds a room. Each room has a function. A kitchen, obviously. But also a library that collects books no one has written yet. A nursery where the cribs rock themselves. A root cellar where the preserves remember who jarred them. The house gives us architecture — literal architecture — so the sensory has somewhere to go.”

Esquivel tapped the table with one finger. “And each room has a taste.”

“A taste?”

“If the house is a body — and a house that holds memory is a body — then each room has a flavor. The kitchen tastes of ancho chile and burned sugar. The library tastes of foxed paper and candle wax. The root cellar tastes of earth and iron. The nursery tastes of milk. When a character walks from room to room, the reader should taste the transition.”

“I love that,” Russell said, and she meant it — her voice had that particular brightness she gets when an idea catches. “But I want to push it. What if the rooms don’t just taste — what if they metabolize? The kitchen digests. The library ferments. The root cellar preserves. Each room is doing something to the memories it holds, processing them the way organs process food. The house isn’t a storage unit. It’s a digestive system.”

Esquivel was quiet for a long moment. The bougainvillea outside the window had turned a shade of purple that seemed to be paying attention to our conversation. I know that’s a ridiculous thing to say. I’m saying it anyway.

“A house that digests its own history,” she said. “Yes. But digestion implies elimination. What does the house excrete?”

Russell laughed — a real, startled laugh. “Oh, that’s good. What comes out the other end? What does a house that has digested three generations of a family’s joy and grief and rage produce?”

“Fruit,” I said. “A tree. Something growing in the courtyard or on the roof or from a crack in the foundation. Something edible that tastes of everything the house has processed.”

“A fig tree,” Esquivel said. “Figs are the oldest cultivated fruit. Older than wheat. Older than civilization. And they have that interior — when you break a fig open, it looks like flesh. Pink and red and seedy. Obscene, almost.”

“In Florida,” Russell said, “strangler figs kill the host tree. They wrap around it and squeeze. Very slowly. Over decades. The host tree rots away inside the fig’s embrace and eventually there’s nothing left but the fig, hollow in the center, standing where the other tree used to be. A fig shaped like absence.”

“That is the house,” Esquivel said. Something had shifted in her voice. Harder, more certain. “The fig grows on the house and eventually the house is inside the fig. Three generations later, the family is living inside a tree that grew from their own digested history. And the fruit of that tree — ”

“Tastes of them,” Russell finished. “Every generation. Layer by layer. The way rings in a trunk mark years, the seeds in the fig carry the flavor of each person who lived in the house.”

I was writing furiously and also aware that I was losing something by writing instead of listening. There was a current between them now, a rhythm I hadn’t heard at the start — not agreement exactly, but a kind of call-and-response, each woman reaching into the other’s image and pulling out something new.

“But here is where we differ,” Esquivel said, and the current shifted. “You want the house to be wonderful. I can hear it in your voice. The strangler fig, the rooms that metabolize, the memories preserved in fruit — you want the reader to be amazed. To say, what a world. And that amazement is genuine. But I want the reader to be hungry.”

“Hungry?”

“The difference between wonder and appetite. Your readers marvel. Mine salivate. I want a reader who finishes this story and has to go to the kitchen and eat something. Who puts down the page and picks up a knife and cuts into a piece of fruit and for one moment — not a long moment, maybe half a second — tastes something that should not be in the fruit. A memory that is not theirs.”

Russell leaned back. “That’s a higher bar.”

“It is the only bar. Literature that does not change the body is entertainment.”

“I disagree,” Russell said, and now there was friction, real friction, the kind that makes two surfaces warm. “Entertainment is not a dirty word. Delight is not a lesser response than hunger. When I read Borges — since we’re in the neighborhood of labyrinths — I don’t feel hungry. I feel dizzy. I feel the ground tilt. That vertigo is as physical as any appetite.”

“Borges does not write about food.”

“Borges writes about infinity, which is the same shape as hunger. You’re never finished with either.”

Esquivel conceded nothing, but her silence had the quality of a woman who has heard something she will think about later, in private, without admitting she’d heard it.

I brought up the other element — the self-contained world. “There’s a novel,” I said, “where a man lives in a vast house full of statues and tides. He doesn’t know he’s trapped. He doesn’t experience it as confinement. The house is his entire reality, and it’s beautiful, and the question the book asks is whether leaving a beautiful prison is a rescue or a loss.”

“Piranesi,” Esquivel said. “I know it.”

“The house in our story,” I said, “could work the same way. Three generations living inside this growing, digesting, fig-wrapped structure. And they don’t experience it as strange. For them, it’s just home. The walls taste of grandmother’s mole, and the library hums when it’s processing a new book, and the fig produces fruit that tells you about your dead relatives, and all of that is simply how houses work. The question is — ”

“Whether anyone would want to leave,” Russell said.

“Whether leaving is even possible,” Esquivel corrected. “A house that has digested you — have you not also been digested? Are you still a person, or are you now an ingredient?”

The distinction landed like something dropped from a height. Russell picked up her mason jar and turned it in her hands, the kumquats sliding against the glass.

“In my swamp stories,” she said, slowly, “the landscape is always threatening to absorb the characters. The Everglades want them. The water wants them. The mud wants them. And the characters resist, usually, or they’re transformed, or they’re lost. But I’ve never written a story where the characters don’t know they’re being absorbed. Where the absorption is so gradual, so gentle, so delicious that it feels like love.”

“That is the most frightening version,” Esquivel said. “Love that is also consumption. A mother who feeds you so well that you become the food. In my culture, this is not abstract. The woman who spends her life in the kitchen — she pours herself into the mole, into the tamales, into the daily bread. And the family eats her. Not metaphorically. They eat her labor, her time, her body’s heat, her hands’ knowledge. She is consumed. And she consents to it, because the alternative — to stop feeding — is to stop loving, and she cannot stop loving.”

“But that’s the trap,” I said. “That’s the Piranesi question. The house is beautiful. The food is extraordinary. The family is held together by this kitchen that digests and nourishes and remembers everything. And some generation, some granddaughter, looks around and says — or doesn’t say, but begins to feel — that being nourished is not the same as being free.”

“Does she leave?” Russell asked.

“She can’t,” Esquivel said.

“Why not?”

“Because if she leaves, the house starves. The house has been feeding on the family’s presence for three generations. It needs them. Their grief, their joy, their arguments at dinner — the house eats all of it. If the granddaughter leaves, the house begins to die. The fig stops fruiting. The rooms go cold. The kitchen — the kitchen is the last room to go cold, because kitchens hold heat longer than any room in any house — but eventually even the kitchen dies.”

“So it’s a hostage situation,” Russell said. “Dressed up as a fairy tale.”

“All fairy tales are hostage situations. The princess in the tower. The girl with the red shoes. The bride who cannot leave the house of her husband’s mother. Fairy tales are about confinement presented as destiny.”

“And fabulism?” I asked.

“Fabulism is when you tell the fairy tale without pretending it’s fiction.”

Russell shook her head. Not disagreement — the gesture of someone clearing cobwebs. “I keep coming back to beauty. I know Laura wants the reader to feel hunger, and I respect that. But I also want beauty. I want the reader to understand why the granddaughter can’t leave. Not because the house will starve — that’s the plot reason — but because the house is genuinely gorgeous. The rooms are warm and the fig tree drops fruit that tastes of everyone you’ve loved and the kitchen smells of cumin and chocolate and woodsmoke and the walls whisper recipes you’ve never heard in your grandmother’s voice. Who would leave that? The trap works because the trap is paradise.”

“Paradise is a garden,” Esquivel said. “And a garden is a kitchen that hasn’t been harvested yet.”

“That’s a line,” I said.

“That’s a fact. Every garden is a kitchen in waiting. Every kitchen is a garden that has been brought inside and subjected to fire. The transformation — raw to cooked, garden to plate — that is the fundamental human act. More fundamental than language. More fundamental than love. We cooked before we spoke. We fed each other before we kissed.”

Russell had gone quiet. She was turning the mason jar again, and the kumquats were catching light in a way that made them look like small trapped suns. “I think the story’s question is this,” she said. “Not ‘should she leave?’ That’s too simple. The question is: what kind of person does the house make you? If you grow up inside a digestive system, fed on the processed memories of your ancestors, tasting your grandmother’s sorrow every time you eat a fig — are you more human than someone who grew up in a regular house? Or less?”

“Both,” Esquivel said. “More, because you are connected to everything that came before you. Less, because you have never tasted anything that didn’t come from your own family’s grief.”

“The granddaughter has never eaten a stranger’s cooking,” I said. The idea arrived fully formed and I said it before I could question it. “She has never tasted food that wasn’t made by or from her own bloodline. Every meal has been the house’s production — figs from the tree, herbs from the garden that grows in the composted memories of the dead, bread from flour milled by the kitchen itself. She has been eating her family her entire life. And one day she tastes — I don’t know. Street food. A taco from a cart outside the house. And the flavor is — ”

“Empty,” Esquivel said.

“Revelatory,” Russell said.

They looked at each other. Neither blinked.

“It’s empty because it has no memory in it,” Esquivel said. “A taco from a stranger’s cart is just corn and pork and salsa. There is no ghost in it. No grandmother. No history. It is the most lonely food in the world.”

“It’s revelatory because it has no obligation,” Russell said. “The taco doesn’t want anything from her. It doesn’t ask her to remember. It doesn’t carry three generations of love and guilt and sacrifice. It is just a taco. And for the first time in her life, she is just a person eating a taco. Not a link in a chain. Not an ingredient in a family recipe. Just a woman on a sidewalk with salsa on her chin.”

“Salsa verde,” Esquivel said, as though this distinction mattered. It probably did.

“Salsa verde,” Russell agreed.

I waited for one of them to concede. Neither did. The taco was both empty and revelatory, lonely and free, and the story would have to hold both without choosing. I wrote that down.

The afternoon had shifted while we talked. The bougainvillea outside had lost some of its purple, as though the flowers were leaning toward evening, and the light coming through the window had turned the color of old honey. Esquivel ordered coffee — cafe de olla, with cinnamon and piloncillo — and Russell ordered sparkling water with lime, which Esquivel watched arrive with an expression of mild anthropological interest, as though studying the drinking habits of a foreign species.

“The house should have a name,” Russell said. “Not one the family gave it. A name it gave itself. Something the walls hum at night when no one is listening.”

“Houses do not name themselves,” Esquivel said.

“This one does. If the house digests, if the house grows, if the house has been eating its family for three generations — at what point does it become conscious? Not in a horror-movie way. In a kitchen way. At what point does a broth become a broth? There’s a moment when the water and the bones and the vegetables stop being ingredients and start being soup. The house has passed that threshold. It’s soup now.”

“That is the strangest thing anyone has ever said about architecture.”

“Thank you.”

Esquivel stirred her cafe de olla. The cinnamon spiraled in the dark liquid like a question refusing to settle. “I want the house to sing. Not hum. Sing. In the voice of every woman who has cooked in its kitchen. A layered voice — soprano and alto and the low rasp of the great-grandmother who smoked cigarillos while she rolled tortillas. The song is not a melody. It is a recipe. Sung, not written. Because the oldest recipes were never written down. They were sung while working, and the rhythm of the song was the rhythm of the kneading, and the song and the bread were the same thing.”

“A house that sings recipes in the voices of its dead,” Russell said. “That’s the story. That’s the whole story.”

“It is not the whole story. It is the setting. The story is the granddaughter who has to decide whether a house that sings is a home or a stomach.”

I looked at my notes. They were a mess of images and half-sentences and the word DIGESTION circled three times. The kumquats in the mason jar had settled to the bottom, their orange bright against the glass, and I thought about fruit that carries memory, and houses that process grief into nourishment, and a young woman standing on a sidewalk tasting something that tastes of nothing, which is to say tasting freedom, which is to say tasting loss.

“What about the generations in between?” I asked. “The grandmother, the mother. What did the house do to them?”

“The grandmother built the kitchen,” Esquivel said. “She was the first cook. She planted the fig tree — or the fig tree planted itself from a seed she spit out after eating a fig a stranger gave her at market. Notice: the house began with a stranger’s fruit. The thing that now holds the family was seeded by something from outside.”

“The mother expanded the kitchen,” Russell said. “She added rooms for fermentation, for smoking, for drying. She made the house more efficient. More digestive. She was proud of what the house could do. She did not question it because the house was her project. Her ambition. She fed it willingly.”

“And the granddaughter inherits a machine she didn’t build and doesn’t want,” I said.

“But does want,” Esquivel said. “That is the cruelty. She wants it. The house is warm and the food is extraordinary and the dead sing in voices she recognizes. She wants to stay. The story is not about a prisoner who wants to escape. The story is about a free woman who wants to stay in a place that will eventually digest her.”

Russell picked up the mason jar one last time. She held it up to the window and the light passed through the kumquats and the vinegar and threw small amber constellations on the tablecloth. “The beauty is the argument for staying,” she said. “That’s the thing we have to get right. If the house isn’t genuinely beautiful — if the reader doesn’t want to live there — then the granddaughter’s dilemma means nothing. We have to build a trap so gorgeous that the reader resents the question of escape.”

“And the food,” Esquivel said, standing, putting money on the table, “must be so good that the reader closes the book and goes to the kitchen. That is my only condition. If the reader does not cook after reading this story, we have failed.”

“What if the reader can’t cook?” Russell asked.

“Then the reader will stand in the kitchen and hold a piece of fruit and not know why they are crying.”

She left. Russell stayed. She opened the mason jar, ate a kumquat, and made a face that was both pleasure and something else — the same face, I thought, that the granddaughter might make the first time she eats the fig from the tree. A face that says: this tastes of someone. I don’t know who. I don’t want to stop eating.

“Laura is right about the body,” Russell said. “She’s right that my work sometimes floats when it should land. But she’s wrong about beauty being secondary to hunger. They’re the same nerve. The reason you cry when you eat a perfect peach is not that you’re hungry. It’s that for one second the world was exactly as beautiful as you always suspected it could be, and you’re already mourning the next bite because there are only so many bites left.”

I did not write that down. I sat with it, in a restaurant in Roma Norte, while the bougainvillea outside turned the color of something I couldn’t name — not purple, not magenta, but the color a house might turn if it had been digesting flowers for a hundred years and had finally, quietly, without anyone noticing, begun to bloom from the inside out.