Grease on the Photograph

A discussion between Roberto Bolaño and Svetlana Alexievich


The place Bolaño chose was a repair shop in Coyoacan that had been converted into a mezcal bar, though the conversion was incomplete. The engine hoist was still bolted to the ceiling. Someone had hung a fern from it. The concrete floor had oil stains that no amount of mopping would ever remove, and the mezcal came in clay cups that had been hand-thrown and fired unevenly, so each one sat at a slightly different angle on the zinc counter. Bolaño seemed to like this. He kept tilting his cup and watching the mezcal resettle.

Alexievich arrived late, carrying a shoulder bag heavy enough that she set it down with both hands. She ordered water. When the bartender suggested mezcal, she said, “Water,” again, without inflection, in a way that made the word final.

“I chose this place for the floor,” Bolaño said.

“The floor.”

“The oil stains. Look at them. You can read them like a stratigraphy. This one” — he pointed with his shoe — “is transmission fluid from the nineteen-sixties. Darker, thicker formulation. And this one is something newer, thinner, probably the nineties. A mechanic stood here for thirty years and his work is written on the ground, and nobody reads it. That’s the story already. That’s always the story.”

“You are telling me a floor is a story.”

“Every floor a mechanic has stood on is a story. The problem is that literature doesn’t believe mechanics have stories. Literature believes mechanics are background. They fix the car so the protagonist can drive to his epiphany.”

I’d been sitting at a corner table with a notebook I hadn’t opened. I should say that the notebook was a performance of seriousness — I’d brought it because I thought I’d take notes, but within the first five minutes I understood that the conversation would move in a way that made note-taking look like stenography, and stenography was not what either of them respected.

“The brothers,” I said. “Vicente and Jose Guerrero. They’re in the historical record as a dependent clause. One sentence in a research file about agricultural modernization in Mexico in the nineteen-forties. ‘One usable tractor was constructed from three discarded machines; a combine was built from scratch.’ That’s it. That’s all that survived.”

“Who wrote the sentence?” Alexievich asked.

“An American scientist. Part of the Rockefeller Foundation program. Norman Borlaug’s team.”

“So an American wrote the sentence about the Mexicans who built the machine.”

“Yes.”

“And the Americans are the ones history remembers.”

“Yes.”

She nodded, unsurprised, and drank her water. “This is always the case. The man who writes the report gets the archive. The man who builds the machine gets the dependent clause. In my country it was the same — the engineers who designed Chernobyl’s containment, their names are in textbooks. The men who shoveled radioactive graphite off the roof with garden tools, wearing lead aprons that protected nothing — I had to find them myself. I had to go to their apartments. Some of them were already dying. One man, Vasily, he told me: ‘I knew what graphite was. I knew what it would do. I shoveled it anyway because somebody had to, and the robot broke, so it was me or nobody.’ He was proud. He was furious. He was both at the same time, and he couldn’t see any contradiction, because for him there was none.”

Bolaño was listening with his chin in his hand, his cup of mezcal forgotten.

“That’s the register,” he said. “Pride and fury simultaneously. No contradiction felt. The contradiction is only visible from outside — from the position of someone who has the luxury of choosing whether to shovel. Vasily doesn’t have that luxury. He has a shovel and a broken robot and ninety seconds before the dose becomes lethal. So he shovels. And he’s right to be proud and he’s right to be furious and the system that produced both the disaster and his courage is the same system.”

“But you must be careful,” Alexievich said. “I have seen writers take a figure like Vasily and make him a hero. The noble worker. The dignity of labor. This is a lie — a comfortable lie. Vasily was not dignified. He was terrified and he was vomiting and he did it anyway. If you make him dignified, you have given the reader permission to admire him from a distance instead of standing next to him and smelling what he smelled.”

“I don’t make anyone dignified,” Bolaño said.

“No. You don’t. But you make them legendary, which is a different problem.”

This landed. I watched Bolaño’s expression contract, not with offense but with the recognition that she’d found something real. He leaned back, crossed his arms.

“Explain.”

“In your books, the marginal figures — the poets nobody read, the detectives who found nothing, the women who disappeared and were never recovered — they become mythic precisely because they are marginal. Their obscurity becomes a kind of grandeur. The reader thinks: how romantic, this genius in the junkyard, this poet in the desert who wrote masterpieces that were never published. And the romance protects the reader from the actual fact, which is: this person suffered, and the suffering was not romantic, and the obscurity was not chosen, it was inflicted.”

“Inflicted by whom?” Bolaño said. His voice had changed — quieter, with an edge that wasn’t anger but something closer to precision, the voice of someone who has considered this exact accusation before, possibly at three in the morning, and arrived at a position he’s prepared to defend.

“By systems. By the country. By whatever arrangement decides that one person’s intelligence counts and another person’s doesn’t. The Guerrero brothers can build a combine from scrap and a photograph. In any reasonable world, this makes them engineers. In the world they actually inhabit, it makes them mechanics. The word is the system. ‘Mechanic’ is the word the system uses to keep their intelligence from threatening anyone.”

“That’s what I want to write about,” I said. “Intelligence that has no credentials. Expertise that has no name.”

Alexievich set her water glass down. “But you must not name it either. The moment you, the writer, step in and say ‘these men were geniuses, these men were engineers who happened to lack degrees’ — you have done the same thing the system did. You have classified them. You have put them in a category that makes the reader comfortable. Let the combine speak. Let the machine be the evidence. The reader who needs to be told the brothers are intelligent has not read the scene where they solve a problem of torque with a truck axle and a piece of canal pipe.”

Bolaño uncrossed his arms. He picked up his mezcal. He drank it in one motion, set the cup down, and raised a finger to the bartender for another.

“You’re right,” he said. “And you’re wrong.”

“Tell me where I’m wrong.”

“You’re wrong because the alternative — stripping the myth, leaving only the fact, the bare testimony — that’s also a choice with consequences. Your witnesses in Chernobyl, in Afghanistan, in the collapse of the Soviet Union — they speak in their own voices, and those voices are extraordinary, and the reader is moved, and the reader thinks: how brave of Alexievich to record this. And the recording becomes a monument, and the monument is another kind of romance. The romance of the authentic voice. The romance of testimony.”

“You are saying I romanticize testimony.”

“I am saying all literature romanticizes. The question is whether it knows it’s doing it.”

“I know what I am doing.”

“Then we agree. And the brothers — Vicente and Jose — will be romantic no matter what we do with them. Two men building a combine harvester in a junkyard from a photograph they can’t decode and a manual they can’t read — that is an inherently romantic premise. The question is not whether the story will contain romance. The question is where we place the camera so the romance doesn’t swallow the grease.”

I had been waiting for a way in, and this was it.

“The grease,” I said. “I want to talk about the grease. About the physical work. What I keep seeing — the image I can’t let go of — is the photograph of an intact combine harvester pinned to the wall of the workshop. Grease-stained. Smudged at the corners where they’ve handled it so many times. They consult it the way someone consults a sacred text, except a sacred text doesn’t have clearance tolerances and belt tension specifications. They’re looking at this photograph and trying to reverse-engineer a machine from a two-dimensional image. Working out what’s behind the visible parts. What connects to what. What carries the torque.”

“This is good,” Alexievich said. “The photograph is the only complete version of the machine they will ever see. The machine they build will never look like the photograph. It will be uglier, asymmetrical, built from the wrong parts made to do the right work. And they will know this. Every time they look at the photograph and then look at what they have built, they will see the gap. And the gap is where the story lives.”

“The gap is also where the comedy lives,” Bolaño said.

I hadn’t expected him to say this.

“Comedy?”

“Brothers arguing over a machine. One says the drive shaft needs to be three inches longer. The other says two inches is enough and besides, where are you going to find another three inches of shaft in a junkyard in Texcoco? And the argument isn’t really about the shaft — it’s about who was right the last time, about a truck they fixed for a neighbor in nineteen-thirty-eight, about their father, about which one of them the father trusted with the better tools. Brothers argue about everything through the thing in front of them. A combine harvester is just the latest surface on which they project thirty years of who-is-smarter.”

Alexievich was almost smiling. “My subjects do this. Two liquidators arguing about the best way to seal a pipe — it sounds technical, but underneath it is: you were sent here because you were expendable, and I was sent here because I was expendable, and we are both pretending this work is voluntary, and the argument about the pipe is the only safe place to put the rage.”

“The combine is the safe place for everything,” I said. “For the brothers’ rivalry, for their pride, for the question of whether the government program respects them or is using them. The machine absorbs all of it. And if I write the machine well enough — the physical details, the problems of torque and clearance and alignment — the reader can feel all those other things through the metal.”

“Don’t announce that,” Bolaño said. “Don’t tell me the machine is a vessel for subtext. Just build the machine. Let me feel the wrench slipping because the bolt is metric and the wrench is imperial. Let me hear the argument about whether the header platform should be six feet or eight. Let the subtext take care of itself.”

He was right, and I felt the correction in the same place I always feel corrections — slightly below the sternum, where embarrassment lives. I had been reaching for a thesis, a statement of intent, and he’d pushed me back to the concrete. The wrench. The bolt. The imperial-metric mismatch, which in a Mexican junkyard in the nineteen-forties is not a metaphor for anything — it’s the fact that the available tools were made for the available scrap, and the scrap came from American machines, and the tools came from God knows where, and nothing fit anything else, and you made it fit anyway with a pipe extension and a rag to keep the socket from slipping.

“What about the Americans?” I asked. “They’re present in the background — the Rockefeller Foundation program, the scientists running the agricultural initiative. Do they appear in the story?”

“Barely,” Bolaño said. “One of them shows up once. He inspects the combine. He says something brief and technical. The brothers listen. Maybe they understand it, maybe they don’t. The point is that the American’s presence changes the quality of the air in the workshop — everything gets slightly more formal, slightly more guarded. And then he leaves, and the brothers go back to arguing in the way brothers argue, which is to say personally and with maximum precision about who ruined the crankshaft bearing in nineteen-forty-one.”

“The American should not understand what he is looking at,” Alexievich said. “He should see a combine. He should not see the six months of work, the fourteen failed solutions, the night Vicente stayed until four in the morning because the header assembly wouldn’t seat and he refused to go home until it seated. The American sees a result. The brothers live inside the process. And the process is the story. The result is just the sentence in the report.”

“That’s the 2666 operation,” I said. “Expanding the sentence into the world it erased.”

Bolaño flinched. Not at the idea — at the naming. “Don’t call it an operation. It’s not a surgical procedure. It’s not a method. It’s what happens when you take a sentence that was written to contain a life and you refuse to let it contain it. You break the container. You let the life spill out across whatever space it needs. Sometimes that’s three pages and sometimes it’s three hundred. With the brothers, I think it’s five thousand words. Enough to build the machine but not enough to explain it. The reader should finish the story understanding less about how the combine works than when they started, not more. Because the brothers’ intelligence is not the kind that can be explained. It can only be shown.”

“The wives,” Alexievich said.

We both looked at her.

“You are building a story about two brothers and a machine. If the wives are not in this story as people, with opinions and work and bodies, then you have written a fable about men and tools, which is a kind of lie. In Chernobyl, the wives of the liquidators — they washed the clothes. The radioactive clothes. Nobody told them the clothes were contaminated, so they washed them by hand, and their hands blistered, and they kept washing because who else would do it? The wives are not spectators. They are doing their own work that the story has decided is invisible.”

“One of the wives should think the combine is a waste of time,” I said. “The government program doesn’t pay well. The brothers are spending months on a machine for people who will take it away when it’s finished. The tractor they built — the government took the tractor. They’ll take the combine too. She sees this clearly. Her clarity is its own expertise.”

“And the other wife?” Bolaño asked.

“I don’t know yet.”

“Good. Don’t decide yet. Let her arrive when you’re writing. The characters you plan are always less interesting than the characters who show up uninvited.”

“That is a luxury of fiction,” Alexievich said. “My people do not show up uninvited. I find them. I travel to their cities. I sit in their kitchens. They tell me things they have told no one, and sometimes they stop and say, ‘Why are you writing this down?’ And I have no good answer. I say, ‘So it won’t be forgotten,’ and they say, ‘It’s already forgotten. You being here doesn’t change that.’”

“Does it?”

“I don’t know. I have spent my life on this question and I don’t know.”

Outside, someone was parking a motorcycle badly — the engine revving, cutting, revving again, the sound of a tire scraping against a curb. Bolaño turned toward the sound with the automatic attention of a man who has spent a lot of time around machines, or around the kinds of places where machines are the dominant form of life. The motorcycle finally went silent. A moment later the rider came in, helmet under his arm, and sat at the bar without looking at any of us.

“What kind of intelligence is it?” I asked. “The brothers’ intelligence. I keep wanting a word for it and not finding one.”

“It doesn’t have a word because the people who make words didn’t need one for it,” Bolaño said. “Theoretical intelligence has a word. Academic intelligence has a word. The kind of intelligence that involves looking at a broken gearbox and understanding, from the sound it made before it stopped working, which teeth are stripped and which are salvageable — there’s no word for that. There’s no department for it. And the absence of the word is the thing that lets the sentence in the report be one sentence instead of a chapter.”

“Embodied cognition,” I offered, and immediately wished I hadn’t.

“That’s a term from a university,” Alexievich said. “The brothers would not use it. The brothers would say: ‘I know how metal sounds when it’s about to fail.’ That’s it. No theory. No framework. Just the sound and the knowledge and the years of listening.”

“In Secondhand Time,” I said, “the Soviet engineers and factory workers describe building things under impossible conditions. No parts, no manuals, no support from above. They improvise everything. And they describe the improvisation with this combination of pride and bewilderment — they can’t quite believe they made it work, but they also can’t imagine not making it work, because who else was going to?”

“That’s the register for the brothers,” Alexievich said. “Exactly that. Not heroism. Not tragedy. Just: this needed to be done, and we were the ones here, and we did it. The bewilderment is important. The bewilderment is what keeps it from becoming a fable about the resilience of the human spirit, which is a sentence I have seen on the back of too many books, including some of mine.”

Bolaño signaled for the check. He did it almost reflexively, as though his body had decided the conversation had reached a certain density that required a change of container.

“The ending,” I said. “The combine works. They drive it through a wheat field and it cuts wheat. That’s the climax. But I don’t think the story ends there.”

“The story ends back in the junkyard,” Bolaño said. “Obviously.”

“Why obviously?”

“Because the triumph is not the point. The combine works, fine. The Americans write it in their report: ‘a combine was built from scratch.’ One sentence. The brothers go back to the junkyard and the junkyard is exactly as they left it — the same piles of scrap, the same broken axles, the same dogs sleeping under the same truck bodies. Nothing has changed. They are still who they were. The world hasn’t rearranged itself around their achievement. This is what I know about Mexico, about the margins, about the places where extraordinary things happen without being recorded: the extraordinary thing happens and then you go back to work, and the going-back is not sad, it’s just real. The sadness is imported by the reader who thinks achievement should change something. The brothers know better.”

“But something has changed,” Alexievich said. “They built it. They know they built it. The knowledge is in their hands — the muscle memory of every adjustment, every substitution, every bolt that wasn’t the right bolt but that they made work anyway. You cannot take that from them. The report takes it from them. History takes it from them. But their hands remember.”

“And is that enough?”

“It is what there is.”

The bartender brought the check on a piece of cardboard torn from a box. Bolaño looked at it with the mild interest of a man reading someone else’s grocery list. He put cash on the cardboard, too much cash, and stood.

“One more thing,” he said. “The manual. The parts manual in English that the brothers cannot read. Don’t have them learn English. Don’t have a translator appear. Have them work from the diagrams and ignore the words, because the words are not how they understand the world. They understand the world through the thing in front of them — the metal, the fit, the sound a belt makes when the tension is right. The manual is someone else’s language for what they already know. They don’t need it. They look at the diagrams the way they look at the photograph: as evidence that the machine is possible. That’s all they need from language. Possibility.”

He left. The fern swung gently from the engine hoist in the draft from the open door. Alexievich finished her water, set the glass down, and looked at the oil-stained floor.

“He is right about the ending,” she said. “The junkyard. But he is wrong about nothing changing. Something changes. It just doesn’t change the world. It changes the brothers. And the difference between those two things is the whole story.”

She picked up her heavy bag with both hands and walked out into the afternoon, and I sat for a while with the oil stains and the uneven mezcal cups and the fern that had no business growing in a place like this, but was growing anyway.