One Thousand Days of Sunshine

A discussion between Shirley Jackson and Carmen Maria Machado


We met in a town hall meeting room that Machado had booked through whatever channel you use to book municipal space for creative purposes. The irony was too clean — I noticed it and said nothing. Jackson noticed it and also said nothing, though she spent the first five minutes walking the perimeter of the room, reading the posted notices. Fire inspection certificates. A flyer for a pancake breakfast fundraiser. A water quality report from 2024 with every metric in the acceptable range, each number highlighted in green by someone who’d apparently found this reassuring enough to color-code.

“Every town has one of these rooms,” Jackson said. She sat down in one of the metal folding chairs and didn’t adjust it for comfort. “And in every one, the chairs are this same shade of beige. There’s a coffeemaker that someone donated in 1996. There’s a flag in the corner that no one looks at. The room is designed so that you forget you’re in it.”

“That’s the point of municipal architecture,” Machado said. She’d arrived already drinking something from a paper cup — chai, from the smell of it. “You’re supposed to feel that the system is too boring to be dangerous.”

“No,” Jackson said. “You’re supposed to feel that the system is too boring to examine. Those are different things.”

I’d set out my notes on the table, which was the kind of folding table that wobbles no matter how you position it. I had printouts of what we were working with: the combination spec, the genre notes, a page of themes I’d drafted at three in the morning and was now embarrassed by. I pushed the themes page to the bottom of the stack.

“So the premise,” I said. “A data analyst. A small town. Twelve years of data showing steady improvement across every metric. Crime, schools, property values, civic engagement. All of it trending in the right direction.”

“And?” Jackson said.

“And she begins to suspect that the data is the problem. That twelve years of improvement isn’t evidence of a good town. It’s evidence of something else.”

“Evidence of what?”

“That’s the thing. She doesn’t know. We don’t know. The story shouldn’t know.”

Jackson uncrossed and recrossed her arms. She had a way of looking at you that made you feel you’d presented the right answer to the wrong question. “You said twelve years. Why twelve?”

“I was thinking about turkeys,” I said, and immediately wished I’d phrased it differently.

But Machado leaned forward. “The induction problem. Bertrand Russell’s turkey.”

“Nassim Taleb’s version,” I said. “A turkey is fed every day for a thousand days. Every day, the data confirms the same hypothesis: humans are benevolent providers of food. The trend is consistent. The confidence interval is tight. Day one thousand and one is Thanksgiving.”

“And the data analyst has been tracking her town for twelve years,” Machado said. “Twelve years of being fed.”

“She doesn’t know she’s being fed. That’s the point. The data is real. The improvement is real. She’s not being deceived. She’s being — acclimated.”

Jackson stood up and walked to the water quality report on the wall. She read it again, or pretended to. “Every number in the acceptable range,” she said. “That’s the story. Every number, every time, without fail. Do you know what that actually means?”

“It means the water’s clean,” I said.

“It means someone is making sure you see numbers that are in the acceptable range. It doesn’t mean the water is clean. It doesn’t mean the water is dirty. It means the system is producing the right outputs. The outputs are not the system.”

Machado was nodding, but with resistance — the nod of someone who agrees with the conclusion but not the framing. “Except I think you’re making this too much about deception. About a hidden hand manipulating the numbers. That’s a conspiracy story. Conspiracy stories are comforting because they have villains. What if there’s no hand? What if the numbers are accurate? What if the town really is getting better every year, and that’s the horror?”

“How is improvement horror?” I asked.

“Because improvement without cause is a symptom. Because twelve years of every metric trending positive means either someone is engineering outcomes, or the metrics themselves are selecting for something you haven’t measured. Her spreadsheets are perfect. Her data is clean. But data is just a list of things you decided to count. What about everything she didn’t count?”

Jackson turned from the wall. “Everything she didn’t count is the town.”

That landed. Machado set down her chai. I wrote it down: Everything she didn’t count is the town.

“I want to be careful here,” I said. “Because the story can’t reveal what’s wrong. The moment we name the thing — cult, government experiment, supernatural force, whatever — the horror collapses into a problem with a shape. The story needs the horror of the shapeless. She suspects, and the suspicion is the whole edifice.”

“The suspicion is the story,” Jackson said. “Not the answer to the suspicion. In my experience, the most frightening stories are the ones where the protagonist’s pattern-recognition starts working and no one — including the reader — can determine whether it’s working correctly or misfiring.”

“But what does she see?” Machado asked. “What are the signs? Not the data — the data is her professional vocabulary. What does she notice with her body? Because a data analyst who only notices data is a metaphor, not a person.”

This was where they diverged, and I could feel it opening up. Jackson’s version of the character was a mind — a noticing intelligence — trapped inside the logic of a system that had already decided about her. Machado’s version was a body — a sensing organism — registering disturbances that the data couldn’t capture.

“Both,” I said, and they both looked at me with variations of impatience.

“Fine,” I said. “But what if the body is where the data fails? She’s been tracking crime rates and school performance and voter turnout, and she can show you the graphs. But what she can’t quantify is the feeling she gets at town meetings. The way everyone agrees too quickly. The way the parking lot empties at exactly the same pace after every event, as if departure were choreographed. The way her neighbor’s smile has the same dimensions every time — not similar, same. The way the town smells on Tuesdays. She can’t put ‘the way the town smells on Tuesdays’ into a spreadsheet.”

“She can, actually,” Machado said. “She could build a dataset of olfactory observations. Time-stamped. Geo-tagged. She could quantify it. And the act of quantifying it would be the act of bringing it into the same system that’s already given her twelve years of comfortable answers. The spreadsheet is the town’s digestive tract. Everything she feeds into it comes back as reassurance.”

“The spreadsheet as digestive tract,” I said. “That’s — I want that in the story.”

“You can’t use it as a metaphor,” Machado said. “It has to be structural. The story itself has to behave like the spreadsheet. Every paragraph giving the reader good news. Every scene resolving positively. Every page another day of being fed.”

Jackson was quiet for a long time after that. She was looking at the folding table, at the wobble point, the one leg that didn’t quite reach the floor.

“The problem with that approach,” Jackson said slowly, “is that horror told as good news requires the reader to do all the work. And some readers will. And some won’t. Some will read a story about a woman in a nice town with a good job and improving civic metrics and they will feel nothing. They’ll think it’s not a horror story at all.”

“Good,” Machado said.

“Not good. Not for the story. A story that only works if the reader is already suspicious of prosperity is a story that’s preaching to a congregation. I want the reader who trusts the data. I want the reader who sees nothing wrong. And I want them to finish the story and only later — in the car, in the shower, three days from now — feel it turn.”

“The slow poison,” I said.

“That’s melodramatic. Not a slow poison. A slow realization that you’ve been reading something other than what you thought you were reading. Like looking at the fire inspection certificate on that wall.” She pointed. “It’s dated. It’s signed. It has an official seal. And if you look closely, the name of the inspector is the same as the name of the building owner. No one checks. The form is filled out correctly. The form is always filled out correctly.”

I got up to look. She was right — the inspector and the building owner shared a name. Paul Kessler. It was probably a coincidence, or a relative, or a small town where one family holds multiple civic roles. All of which were reasonable. All of which were exactly the kind of explanation that the data analyst in our story would have.

“I want to talk about structure,” I said, and both of them seemed to resettle, Machado pulling one leg beneath her, Jackson going very still.

“I’ve been thinking about the order of telling. If this is a story where the reader accumulates comfort the same way the analyst accumulates data — twelve years of good news piling up — then by the end the reader should feel buried. Warm and comfortable and buried.”

“That’s one approach,” Jackson said. “But it means the ending has to be the moment of burial. The last shovelful. And I don’t know what that looks like without naming the thing.”

“What if we reverse it,” Machado said. Not as a question. She was looking at her hands, at the paper cup, at the table’s grain. “What if the story starts at the end — at whatever day one thousand and one is, whatever the Thanksgiving is — and moves backward?”

“Backward,” I repeated.

“Reverse chronology. Start with her knowing. Or start with her gone — disappeared, dead, it doesn’t matter, the reader doesn’t know. Start with the absence. And then move backward through the twelve years, day by day or year by year, and every step backward shows you another piece of good news. Another positive metric. Another quarterly report that looks perfect. The reader already knows something is wrong because the story started with the after. But every scene is benign. Every scene is another day of being fed.”

Jackson uncrossed her arms. “That’s clever. But I don’t know if it’s right.”

“Why not?”

“Because if the reader starts knowing the outcome, you’ve answered the question before it’s been asked. The power of a town like this — the power of any system that consumes its members — is that you can’t see it from inside. If you give the reader the outside view first, the god’s-eye view, then the reader is never really inside. They’re watching from a safe distance. They’re the farmer, not the turkey.”

“The reader should be the turkey,” I said.

“The reader should not know they are the turkey.”

Machado was shaking her head, not in disagreement but in complication. “But that’s the whole problem the story is about. You cannot ever know from inside. You cannot distinguish benevolence from fattening using only the data available to you in the moment. The reverse structure makes that visible. Each step backward is another data point that looked good at the time. And the reader, who knows the end, has to sit with the fact that knowing the end changes nothing about the data. Each number is still correct. Each metric still trends positive. Knowing what’s coming doesn’t make the evidence false. It makes it irrelevant. That’s worse.”

I was writing fast now, my pen skidding on the paper. She was right — or she was onto something that might be right, which in my experience is more useful. If the reader knows from the first page that something terrible has happened, and then has to move backward through years of evidence that everything was fine, the reader becomes the data analyst. The reader sees the numbers. The reader knows the numbers are accurate. And the reader knows the numbers didn’t help.

“The structure is the argument,” I said.

“The structure is the turkey,” Machado said.

Jackson got up. She went to the window, which looked out on a parking lot. Three cars, evenly spaced. A recycling bin, blue and clean. Streetlights that worked. A town that, from this window, was exactly as pleasant as its data said it was.

“If you do the reverse,” Jackson said, still looking out, “then each scene has to be warmer than the last. Because you’re moving backward in time, away from the disaster. The further back you go, the safer it feels. The cozier. The more the town resembles what everyone believes it to be. And the last scene — which is the first day, the beginning — should be the most beautiful. The most ordinary. A woman starting a new job in a town she’s already falling in love with. And by then the reader should be sick with it.”

“Sick with the beauty,” I said.

“Sick with the certainty that the beauty is real. Not fake. Not a mask. Real, and insufficient. Everything the town offered her was genuine. The good schools were good. The safe streets were safe. The neighbors were kind. The data was accurate. And none of it — not one cell in any spreadsheet — told her what she was inside of.”

Machado was watching Jackson with an expression I couldn’t name. Respect, maybe, but also something combative — the look of someone who’s been handed a piece of their own argument back in a form they didn’t expect.

“So we’re doing the reverse,” Machado said.

“I don’t know,” I said. “I think so. I’m nervous about holding it. Reverse chronology means every scene has to carry the weight of what came after it, and the reader has to hold all of that in their head as the surface gets calmer. That’s a lot to ask.”

“It’s the right amount to ask,” Jackson said. “A story that asks too little of its reader is a story that doesn’t trust them. This woman trusted her data. The story should trust its audience enough to let them do the math.”

“What about the body?” Machado asked. “We haven’t resolved the body.”

“The body is how the reader tracks time,” Jackson said. “In the reverse. If we start at the end and move backward, the body is the clock. Something is happening to her physically — tension, insomnia, a jaw she can’t unclench, a rash on her palms that no dermatologist can explain — and as we move backward, the symptoms disappear. She sleeps better. Her jaw loosens. Her palms are smooth. The body unwinds. And the unwinding should feel like relief, like healing, like a woman becoming healthy. But the reader knows the health is the approach. The health is the thousand days.”

“The health is the fattening,” Machado said.

“I wouldn’t use that word.”

“Of course you wouldn’t. You’d let the reader arrive at it themselves, three days later, in the shower.”

Jackson almost laughed. It came out as a single exhaled breath through her nose, and she turned back to the window. The parking lot was unchanged. The streetlights still worked.

“I have a practical concern,” I said. “The town. It has to feel real. Not allegorical. Not a stand-in for America or capitalism or systems of control. A real town with a real name and a real hardware store and a real February where the pipes freeze. If the town is a metaphor, it’s dead on the page.”

“The town is not a metaphor,” Jackson said. “The town is a town. I’ve lived in towns like this. I raised my children in a town like this. The Fourth of July parade. The volunteer fire department. The annual budget meeting where everything is approved because everything is always approved. These places are real. They function. That is what makes them terrible.”

“Terrible is too strong,” Machado said.

“Terrible is not strong enough. But it’s what we have.”

Machado stood and gathered her things — the chai cup, a scarf she’d draped over the chair back. She stopped halfway to the door. “One more thing. The data analyst. She’s good at her job. She’s not paranoid. She’s not damaged. She’s not the kind of person who sees patterns where none exist. She sees patterns where they do exist, and that’s what breaks her. The pattern is real. The improvement is real. And the improvement is a mouth.”

She left. The door closed behind her with the hydraulic sigh of every municipal door in every town hall in the country. Jackson and I sat in the silence of the meeting room with its beige chairs and its green-highlighted water report.

“She’s right about the body,” Jackson said. “I don’t think the way she thinks about bodies, but she’s right that the story needs one. The data is the mind’s version. The body has its own version. And the two versions don’t agree, and the story should never decide which is correct.”

“Do you think the reverse structure works?”

She considered this for longer than was comfortable. “I think it might work too well. I think the reader might understand the trick before they feel it. And the feeling is what matters.”

“How do we make them feel it?”

“By making each scene, as you move backward, genuinely good. Not sinister-coded good. Not ominous good. Good good. A neighborhood where people bring food when someone’s sick. A school board that actually listens. A property tax rate that makes sense. Make it so good the reader starts wanting to live there. And then let them realize what that wanting means.”

She stood. She buttoned her coat. She did not look at the fire inspection certificate on the way out, but she paused at the door with her hand on the push bar.

“Check whether Paul Kessler is the building owner and the fire inspector,” she said. “Or don’t. It doesn’t matter. The form is filled out correctly.”

I sat alone in the municipal meeting room for a while after that. The fluorescent lights buzzed at a frequency I hadn’t noticed when other people were in the room. The wobbling table had stopped wobbling, which meant I’d stopped touching it, which meant the instability had always been mine.

I looked at the water quality report. Every number in the green. Every number acceptable. I thought about a woman who’d looked at numbers like these for twelve years and seen a good town getting better, and I thought about the story I was going to write, which would start at the end of her certainty and move backward into the warmth. Each chapter a degree warmer. Each page another good day. The reader moving deeper into a comfort that the first page has already proven terminal.

I picked up my notes. On the back of one page, in handwriting I didn’t remember producing, I’d written: The improvement is a mouth.

I left the meeting room. The hallway was clean and well-lit. The exit signs worked. Everything was in the acceptable range.