The Frequency of Inherited Hands
A discussion between Isabel Allende and Haruki Murakami
We met in a borrowed flat in Shimla that belonged to someone Allende knew through someone else — a translator, I think, or a poet who had once translated a poet. The flat had a balcony that looked out over the lower ridge, and the monsoon had stalled three valleys east, so the sky was the color of old newspaper and the air smelled of pine resin and approaching rain. There were biscuits. There was tea that no one had made correctly.
Murakami sat on the edge of a cane chair as though he might need to leave at any moment. He was wearing a running jacket despite the heat. He picked up a biscuit, turned it over, set it down.
“I don’t understand family sagas,” he said. “This should be stated at the beginning.”
Allende laughed — not politely, but the way you laugh when someone confirms a suspicion. She was already comfortable, already occupying the full width of her chair, a shawl pulled around her shoulders though the room was warm. “Of course you don’t,” she said. “Your characters live alone. They eat spaghetti alone. They listen to records alone. The family is what happens before the story begins, like weather before a flight.”
“Weather before a flight is important.”
“Weather before a flight is something the pilot deals with. Your characters have already taken off. They are already in the air, alone, with their headphones on.”
I poured tea for myself and said nothing. Sometimes the best contribution is to stay quiet while two writers locate the exact shape of their disagreement.
“The assignment,” Murakami said, and he spoke the word assignment the way one might say dentist appointment — with acceptance but no enthusiasm, “is about women who inherit a gift. A different gift each generation. And the gift cannot save them from the structures that —” He paused. “What structures?”
“Caste,” I said. “Dowry. Marriage markets. The small violences of expectation. The laws about who may love whom and how much.”
“Roy’s territory,” Allende said. She said it with respect, but also with a claim — as though respecting another writer’s territory was a way of marking one’s own. “The Love Laws. The rules that dictate. She broke a novel in half to show how those rules break people.”
“She broke the chronology,” I said. “The God of Small Things doesn’t move forward. It circles a single event the way water circles a drain.”
“Yes.” Allende leaned forward. “And that is the opposite of what I would do. I would start with the grandmother. Always the grandmother. The oldest living woman who remembers a version of the gift that no one else can verify. And I would move forward, through her daughters, her granddaughters, because the power of a family saga is accumulation. You feel the weight of years. You feel what has been carried.”
Murakami picked up the biscuit again. “Accumulation,” he said, as though testing a medical term. “My instinct is the opposite. The woman alone in a room — perhaps the granddaughter, the one who has inherited a gift she barely recognizes — and the past arrives not as a saga but as an interruption. A radio frequency she can’t tune out. A stain on the wall that changes shape. She is trying to live her ordinary life and the family keeps — leaking in.”
That word — leaking — sat in the room for a moment. I could feel both of them considering it.
“I like leaking,” Allende said, somewhat grudgingly. “The house in my novel leaks. Spirits leak through the walls. But for me, the leaking is abundant. It is too much. The house is overflowing with the dead, with the passionate, with the clairvoyant. Your leaking would be — what? A single drop on the ceiling.”
“Yes. One drop. And the woman lies in bed staring at it for three pages.”
“Three pages of staring at a drop.”
“In those three pages, the entire history of her family would be present. Not told. Present. The drop contains it.”
Allende shook her head, not in disagreement exactly, but in the way one shakes one’s head at a beautiful move in chess that one would never have played. “For me, the drop is not enough. The reader needs the grandmother’s hands. The way she ground spices. The argument she had with her husband in 1962 about selling a piece of land. The specific morning she woke and knew — not believed, knew — that her daughter’s marriage would fail. These are the materials of a family saga. If you compress them into a drop on the ceiling, you lose the texture.”
“You gain mystery,” Murakami said.
“You gain loneliness,” Allende corrected. “Which is your territory, not mine.”
I had been scribbling notes but I stopped, because something was forming that I wanted to follow before it dissolved. “What if both are true at once?” I said. “What if the story moves forward through the generations — grandmother, mother, daughter — but each section is told from inside the particular quality of that woman’s isolation? The grandmother’s loneliness is different from the mother’s, which is different from the granddaughter’s. And the gift is the thing that both connects them and separates them from everyone around them.”
Neither of them said anything for a moment. The almost-monsoon wind pushed through the balcony door and rattled a window that had been painted shut.
“The gift as isolating force,” Murakami said. “Not as power. Not as magic in the fantasy sense. Something closer to a condition. Like perfect pitch. You hear what others can’t, and it makes ordinary music unbearable.”
“No,” Allende said, and she said it firmly. “The gift must be wonderful. At least at first. At least for the grandmother. She must love it. It must be — I don’t have the English — una bendición. A blessing that she chooses, even if she didn’t choose to receive it. The tragedy is not that the gift is a burden. The tragedy is that the gift is magnificent and it still cannot save her daughter from a marriage that devours her.”
This is where the conversation became difficult, and by difficult I mean genuinely uncertain. I had come with the assumption that the gift would be a curse-in-disguise, the standard magical realism move where the extraordinary is also the affliction. Allende was insisting on something harder: that the gift could be purely good — generous, nourishing, a source of real joy — and still be insufficient against the machinery of social life.
“What does the grandmother’s gift look like?” I asked.
Allende thought. “She hears the future in water. Not prophecy — not the fortune-teller’s specificity. But when she is near running water, she feels what is coming, the way you feel a change in temperature. She knows her son will be cruel before he learns cruelty. She knows the monsoon will be late. She knows the British are leaving because the Ganges told her — not in words, of course, not in words.”
“Too much information,” Murakami said.
“It is the right amount of information. She is a woman who knows things. The question is what she does with knowledge that no one will believe.”
“She does nothing,” Murakami said. “That is the most honest answer. She knows and does nothing because knowledge without the power to act is just a particular kind of suffering.”
“She does not do nothing!” Allende was almost out of her chair. “She acts. She arranges marriages, she hides money, she plants trees in the wrong season because she knows the rain will come early. She is fierce. She is strategic. She uses the gift like a weapon she is not supposed to have. And it works — for a while. For a generation. Then the daughter inherits a different version, something less useful, something more interior, and the strategy falls apart.”
I wrote down: the grandmother’s gift is external; the daughter’s gift is internal; the granddaughter’s gift is — and I didn’t know what to write next.
“What does the granddaughter get?” I asked.
“She gets the worst one,” Murakami said quietly. “She gets the ability to feel what her grandmother felt and what her mother felt. She inherits not a gift but an archive. She is carrying the sensory memory of two women she can barely remember, and she cannot distinguish their grief from her own.”
The room was very still. Somewhere below us, a dog barked at something only it could see.
“That,” Allende said, “is the first thing you’ve said that I agree with completely.” She paused. “I dislike agreeing with you this much.”
“The feeling is mutual.”
I asked about the house. There had to be a house — both source works demanded it. The house in Roy’s novel is the site of transgression, the place where the Love Laws are both enforced and broken. The house in Allende’s novel is the family’s body, its memory, its physical expression across time. Where would our house be?
“Kerala,” Allende said. “Or Karnataka. Somewhere the landscape is lush enough to be complicit. A house surrounded by too much green. The abundance of nature should feel like a comment on the family’s constraint.”
“An apartment,” Murakami said. “In Bangalore. A modern apartment where the grandmother’s house has been demolished and replaced with a software park, and the granddaughter lives in a rented flat on the seventh floor with no running water and the gift comes to her through the pipes.”
“Through the pipes.”
“Dry pipes. She puts her ear to them and hears her grandmother’s river.”
Allende stared at him. I could not tell if she was furious or moved. Possibly both. “You want to take the house away,” she said. “You want to demolish it before the story begins.”
“I want the story to be about what happens after the house is gone. The house is the past. The question is whether the gift survives the past.”
“The house is not the past. The house is the gift’s body. Where does a gift live, if not in a house? Where does a grandmother’s knowledge go when the walls come down?”
“Into the pipes,” Murakami said. “Into the wiring. Into the static between radio stations. It doesn’t disappear. It migrates.”
I was writing very fast. The idea of the gift migrating — from river water to dry pipes, from open landscape to apartment walls, from a grandmother’s full-bodied clairvoyance to a granddaughter’s fragmented inheritance of other women’s feelings — felt like the spine of something. Not a plot. A movement. A direction the story could fall toward.
“The middle generation,” I said. “The mother. What happens to her?”
Both of them went quiet, and the quiet had a different quality now. Not the generative silence of people thinking. The heavier silence of people who know the answer and don’t want to say it.
Allende spoke first. “The mother marries wrong. She marries a man from the correct family, the correct caste, the correct economic bracket — and he diminishes her. Not violently. Not in a way that anyone outside the marriage can name. He diminishes her by small daily increments, the way water wears a step. And her gift — whatever it is — turns inward. It becomes a private thing. A secret she keeps the way other women keep recipes or resentment.”
“What is her gift?”
“She can tell when someone is lying. Not about grand things. About small things. She knows when her husband says the traffic was bad that the traffic was fine and he was sitting in his car outside his office because he didn’t want to come home yet. She knows when her mother-in-law says the food is good that the food is a disappointment. She knows everything no one wants her to know.”
“And she says nothing,” Murakami said.
“She says nothing.” Allende’s voice was flat. “Because the family functions on these lies. The lies are the mortar. She learns to hear the lies and smile, and the smiling is what breaks her.”
I wanted to ask more about the mother — about what breaking looks like when it happens silently, over years, in a household where the surfaces remain polished. But Allende was already somewhere else.
“I once knew a woman in Santiago,” she said, “before the coup. She had married a man who was correct in all the ways you could measure — his family, his education, his income, his posture. And she told me once, at a party, while her husband was across the room telling a very good story to a very attentive audience, she told me: ‘I have been agreeing with him for eleven years and I don’t know what I think about anything anymore.’ That is the mother in this story. Not beaten. Not imprisoned. Agreed into nothing.”
Murakami was quiet for a moment, then: “In my country we call it kuuki wo yomu — reading the air. Everyone does it. The expectation is that you sense what others feel and adjust yourself accordingly. The mother’s gift is an extreme version of what is already demanded of women: know the truth and say nothing. The gift doesn’t make her different. It makes her more of what she is already expected to be.”
That sentence rearranged something in my understanding. I had been thinking of the gift as extraordinary — as magic, as disruption to the ordinary. But Murakami was suggesting that in certain contexts, the gift is merely an intensification of what the social order already demands. The grandmother’s gift — reading the future in water — is wild, external, prophetic. The mother’s gift — detecting lies — is domestic surveillance. The gift doesn’t degrade across generations. It gets domesticated. It learns to serve the house instead of threatening it.
“The Roy element,” I said, reaching for something I’d been circling. “The twins. The God of Small Things has Estha and Rahel — two halves of one consciousness, separated by the same event. Is there a version of that here? The doubling?”
Allende tilted her head. “The doubling is the grandmother and the granddaughter. The same gift, transformed. The grandmother heard water; the granddaughter hears — what did you say? Static. The grandmother is the original signal and the granddaughter is the echo, distorted by everything it has passed through.”
“That’s not Roy’s doubling,” I said. “Roy’s twins are simultaneous. They exist at the same time. They experience the same event from two bodies. Your version is sequential.”
“Sequential is how families work,” Allende said. “You inherit. You do not coexist. The grandmother is dead or old or irrelevant by the time the granddaughter is ready to hear her.”
“Unless the granddaughter’s gift makes the grandmother simultaneous again,” Murakami said. “Unless the archive she carries collapses the sequence. She is twenty-four years old in a Bangalore apartment, and she is also her grandmother at nineteen hearing the river rise, and she is also her mother at thirty-eight smiling at a lie. All three at once. That is the doubling. Not two bodies in one time — three times in one body.”
I wrote that down twice, because the first time I wrote it wrong.
There was a pause during which Allende got up and walked to the balcony. She stood with her back to us, looking at the ridge where the monsoon was stalling, or not stalling, or deciding.
“The problem with this story,” she said, not turning around, “is that it wants to be quiet. Both of you — you, Murakami, and you,” she pointed at me without looking, “you want the story to be quiet. Interior. A woman alone in a room receiving transmissions. And I understand the appeal. But quiet is a luxury of safety. These women are not safe. The grandmother is not safe — she is a woman with unauthorized knowledge in a household that has not asked for her opinion. The mother is not safe — she is disintegrating under the weight of mandatory pleasantness. The granddaughter is perhaps safer, perhaps freer, but she is carrying the unprocessed danger of two women who could not afford to be quiet and were quiet anyway.”
She turned around. “The story must be loud at least once. There must be a moment when someone breaks the agreement. When the smile cracks. When the mortar crumbles and you can see, briefly, the structure of lies the whole family is built on. Otherwise it is just a beautiful melancholy, and beautiful melancholy is—”
“My specialty,” Murakami said.
“Your limitation,” Allende said. She said it without cruelty, the way a doctor names a condition.
Murakami did not respond immediately. He finished a biscuit — an entire biscuit, the first one he’d fully committed to — and then he said: “You are right that there must be a break. But the break does not have to be loud. In Japan, the loudest moments in a household are the silences. The meal where no one speaks. The door that is not slammed but simply — left open. The break can be structural. A change in the pattern that everyone notices and no one acknowledges.”
“An open door that no one acknowledges is a very Japanese break,” Allende said. “In Chile, the break is a pot thrown against a wall. In India — I don’t know. I haven’t earned the right to say.”
That admission — I haven’t earned the right to say — surprised me. Allende is not a writer who typically defers. But she was acknowledging something real: that writing about South Asian social structures from the outside, even with the permission of magical realism’s border-crossing, requires a particular care.
“Roy earned the right because it was her own life,” I said. “The Love Laws in her novel are autobiographical. The caste transgression is drawn from her family’s history. We don’t have that. We have two outsiders and an AI.”
“Three outsiders,” Murakami corrected.
“Three outsiders,” I agreed. “So the break — whatever it is — has to come from the story’s own logic, not from cultural authority we don’t possess. It has to be the gift’s logic. The break happens when the gift does something it has never done before.”
Murakami had shifted forward in his chair in a way that meant he had something.
“The Allende version of this story is three generations of women in one house, moving forward through time, the house accumulating memory until the walls can barely hold it. The Roy version is one event — the moment the middle generation’s marriage becomes impossible — told from every angle, fractured, returned to again and again. I want to ask: what if neither?”
“Neither,” Allende said.
“What if the story is told from the granddaughter’s rented flat, and the generations arrive as interference? As static? As something leaking through the infrastructure of a modern building that was built on the rubble of the old house? She is trying to live a contemporary life — she has a job, perhaps in IT, perhaps something banal — and the women keep arriving. Not as ghosts. As frequencies.”
“Frequencies,” Allende said. She was tasting the word the way he had earlier tasted accumulation. “You want to make it a haunting.”
“Not a haunting. A reception. She is receiving them. Like a radio.”
“A radio is a passive object.”
“A radio chooses its station.”
The biscuits had gone soft in the humidity. I ate one anyway. The tea was cold. Below us, the stalled monsoon crept a little closer, and I could see, on the facing ridge, the first dark stain of rain on the pine canopy — still miles away but coming with the certainty of something that had been known about for generations and could not be prevented.
“There’s something we haven’t addressed,” I said. “The social structures. The gift cannot protect against them. That’s the premise. But what does that look like, specifically? Is it caste? Dowry? The marriage market?”
“It is all of them,” Allende said. “And it is none of them individually. It is the system. The system that says this woman’s gifts are irrelevant because her father’s land is on the wrong side of a road, or because her skin is a particular shade, or because she was born second instead of first. The gift is magnificent and the system does not care.”
“The system doesn’t even notice,” Murakami said. “That’s what’s terrible. If the system actively fought the gift, that would be a drama with a villain. But the system simply — proceeds. The gifted woman and the ungifted woman are processed identically. The machinery doesn’t distinguish.”
“Yes,” Allende said, and she said it the way you confirm a diagnosis. “The machinery doesn’t distinguish. That is the sentence. That is what the whole story is about.”
I wrote it down. The machinery doesn’t distinguish. And then, below it, a question I didn’t ask aloud: But does the granddaughter, receiving her grandmother’s river through dry pipes in a Bangalore apartment, hearing her mother’s accumulated silence between the frequencies — does she distinguish? Does inheriting the full archive of what these women knew and suffered give her something they didn’t have? Or does it just give her more to carry?
The monsoon reached the near ridge. We could hear it now — not the rain itself but the trees beginning to move ahead of it, the whole hillside leaning.
Murakami stood up and walked to the balcony. He watched the approaching rain with an expression I couldn’t read. Allende poured herself more cold tea and drank it as though it were exactly the temperature she had wanted all along.
“The gift migrates,” she said, to no one, or to the room. “From water to pipes to static to — what comes after static?”
No one answered. The rain arrived.