Twelve Years of Rehearsal and No Opening Night

A discussion between Jane Austen and Nora Ephron


We met at Jane’s insistence in a room she called a parlor and which was, in fact, just a sitting room in a rented brownstone near Gramercy Park. She had arranged two chairs by the window and a third, slightly lower, near the door. I took the low chair without being asked and only later realized I’d been managed.

Nora arrived with two coffees. She handed one to me, not to Jane, which I read as either solidarity or a statement about caffeine and moral character. Jane looked at the coffees and said nothing, which in her vocabulary was a paragraph.

“I’ve been thinking about time,” Nora said, settling into the better of the two window chairs. She was wearing a turtleneck and reading glasses pushed up on her head, and she looked like exactly what she was: a woman who had thought about something for days and was now going to say it in the first thirty seconds as though it had just occurred to her. “The Harry and Sally thing that nobody talks about. The movie is twelve years. Twelve years from the car ride to the New Year’s Eve confession. That’s not a romantic comedy. That’s a geological event.”

“Emma is approximately one year,” Jane said. “Though I was not overly specific about the calendar. The point is not the duration but the density. A woman can fail to understand herself in a single season if she is sufficiently determined.”

“But twelve years gives you something a single season can’t,” Nora said. “It gives you versions. Harry at twenty-one is a different animal than Harry at thirty-three. Sally at twenty-one thinks she has it figured out. Sally at thirty-three knows she doesn’t, and she’s angrier about it, and the anger is what finally makes her interesting.”

I said something about the story we were supposed to be building. They both looked at me as though I’d interrupted a conversation that predated my arrival, which in a sense it did.

“The premise,” I said. “A woman and a man who’ve known each other for years. She’s been arranging everyone else’s love life — not professionally, not as a matchmaker, just as the friend who always knows who should be with whom. She’s Emma with a group chat. And he’s been there the whole time, watching her get it wrong about herself.”

“Knightley,” Jane said.

“Harry,” Nora said.

“Both,” I said, though I wasn’t sure what combining them would produce.

“A man who is right about the woman he loves and does nothing about it for a very long time,” Jane said. “That is the Knightley problem. He sees Emma clearly. He sees her faults, her vanity, her misplaced certainties. And he loves her inside the seeing. He does not love her despite her faults or because of them — he loves her with full knowledge, and it is that fullness that keeps him silent. You cannot confess love to someone you understand that completely. It would feel like cheating.”

“That’s not why Harry doesn’t say anything,” Nora said. “Harry doesn’t say anything because he’s afraid of what it’ll cost. He’s not noble. He’s not patient. He’s terrified. He thinks if he says it, and she doesn’t feel it, he’ll lose the thing he actually needs, which is her on the other end of the phone at midnight telling him about her terrible date.”

“So one man is silent from understanding and the other from fear.”

“And our man?” I asked.

Neither of them answered immediately. Nora took her glasses off her head and cleaned them with the hem of her turtleneck, which gave her something to do while she thought. Jane watched a pigeon on the windowsill with the concentrated attention she gave to anything that wasn’t the question she’d been asked.

“Our man has been rehearsing,” Nora said finally. “He’s been rehearsing the conversation for years. Not in a cute way. In a sad way. He knows what he’d say. He’s rewritten it in his head a hundred times. But every version sounds wrong when he imagines her hearing it. So he just keeps showing up and being her friend and eating dinner across from her while she tells him which of their friends should date which other of their friends, and every time she’s wrong about someone, he corrects her, and every time she’s wrong about herself, he says nothing.”

“That is not silence from understanding,” Jane said. “That is cowardice dressed in good manners.”

“It’s both. People are usually several things at once.”

Jane conceded this with a motion of her hand that might have been agreement or might have been dismissal of the entire concept of interiority. I couldn’t tell, which may have been the point.

“I want them in each other’s apartments,” I said. “Not living together. Just — occupying each other’s space. She has a toothbrush at his place. He has a shelf of books at hers. They cook together three nights a week but never on Fridays because Fridays are ‘her night,’ meaning she sits on her couch and watches something bad and texts him about it and he responds within ninety seconds, always, because he is also on his couch and also watching it, which they have never acknowledged.”

“That’s a marriage,” Nora said. “That’s a marriage with plausible deniability.”

“Which is what friendship between a man and a woman always becomes, if you let it go long enough.”

“I disagree,” Jane said. “I disagree sharply. You are suggesting that friendship between men and women is merely romance without the admission. That diminishes friendship. Friendship is its own country. It has its own passport. The notion that all intimacy is secretly romantic intimacy is — I do not wish to be indelicate — a particularly modern neurosis.”

“Jane,” Nora said, “I wrote the movie where a man says men and women can’t be friends because the sex part always gets in the way. And I believed it when I wrote it. I’m less sure now. But the thing I’m certain about is that it doesn’t matter whether it’s true as a universal. It matters whether it’s true for these two.”

“And for these two?”

“For these two, the friendship is real. It’s completely real. That’s what makes it impossible. If the friendship were a performance, if they were secretly pining the whole time, it would be simple. Two people pretending not to be in love — that’s an hour and forty minutes, resolve it by the third act. But two people who genuinely love each other as friends who then have to figure out what to do when one of them — or both of them — starts wanting something else? That’s the hard version. Because the friendship isn’t a mask. It’s a foundation. And they’re terrified of pulling up the floorboards to see what’s underneath, because what if there’s nothing, and now you’ve wrecked a perfectly good floor.”

I was writing so fast my handwriting had degenerated into something closer to seismography. “The matchmaking,” I said. “She’s good at it. Not delusional — actually good. She reads people. She sets up her friends and the setups work. Two couples, maybe three, who are together because she saw what they couldn’t see. And that success is the problem. Because it confirms her theory of herself: she’s the one who sees clearly. The perceptive one. The one who understands how people work.”

“Except herself,” Jane said.

“Except herself. Classic Emma.”

“It is not ‘classic Emma.’ It is Emma. I originated the pattern. I do not require it be called classic.”

Nora laughed. It was the kind of laugh that acknowledges something true without resolving whether it’s funny or irritating, and Jane accepted it as though receiving a bill she intended to dispute later.

“Here’s what I keep getting stuck on,” I said. “The moment of recognition. In Emma, it comes when Emma realizes she’s jealous of Harriet. She’s been so focused on arranging Harriet’s love life that when Harriet says she has feelings for Knightley, Emma’s reaction shocks her into seeing herself. The self-knowledge arrives through jealousy. In When Harry Met Sally, it comes on New Year’s Eve, through absence — Sally is alone, Harry is alone, and the absence of each other is louder than twelve years of presence. So for our story — what’s the trigger? What breaks her theory of herself?”

“A wedding,” Nora said immediately. “One of the couples she put together. She’s at their wedding, she’s given a toast, she’s the architect of the whole thing and everyone knows it. She’s proud. She’s earned the pride. And then she turns around and he’s not there.”

“He didn’t come?”

“He didn’t come. He said he’d come. He RSVPed. And he didn’t come. And she spends the rest of the reception unable to enjoy the thing she built because the one person she wants to show it to is missing.”

Jane was very still. “That is jealousy’s cousin. Not jealousy itself. You are describing the discovery that someone’s absence weighs more than a room full of presence, which is not the same as wanting to possess them. It is wanting to be — witnessed. By the specific person.”

“Is that different from love?” I asked.

“I am not sure,” Jane said, and I could tell it cost her something to say so.

“In my experience,” Nora said, “love is when you can’t enjoy good news until you’ve told one particular person. You get a promotion and the first thing you do is call — not your mother, not your best friend, but the person. That’s how you know. Not by what you feel in their presence but by what you feel in their absence. The hole that’s shaped like them.”

“Harry tells Sally she’s the last person he wants to talk to at night before he goes to sleep,” I said. “That’s the line.”

“It’s the line because it’s about absence, not presence. He’s not saying I want to be with you. He’s saying the day doesn’t finish until I hear your voice. Which is — ” Nora stopped. “Which is the most honest thing a person can say, and it sounds like a small thing, and it isn’t.”

Jane looked out the window. The pigeon was gone. A different one, fatter and less purposeful, had taken its place.

“My concern,” Jane said, “is that the story will be too gentle. I have been accused — by people who have not read me carefully — of writing gentle comedies. Emma is not gentle. Emma is cruel. Emma humiliates Miss Bates at Box Hill. She says an unkind thing to a woman who has nothing, and it is the most painful scene in the novel because Emma knows it is wrong even as she is doing it. The comedy does not protect its characters from their own worst impulses. If this story is merely two pleasant people discovering pleasant feelings, I will have no part in it.”

“So someone has to get hurt,” I said.

“Someone has to cause hurt. There is a difference. Getting hurt is passive. Causing it requires the character to be a full person — capable of selfishness, of vanity, of the particular cruelty that comes from being certain you are right.”

Nora nodded. “She has to do something awful. Not villainous. Socially awful. She has to interfere in someone’s situation in a way that seems helpful and is actually about control, and the man has to see it, and what he says to her about it has to land like Knightley at Box Hill.”

“And she has to deserve it,” Jane said.

“And it has to come from love,” Nora added. “That’s the part you left out. Knightley rebukes Emma because he can’t bear watching her be less than she is. It’s not a lecture. It’s a wound he inflicts because the alternative — watching her become someone small — is worse.”

“You’ve read my novel.”

“I’ve read your novel eight times. Don’t change the subject.”

I set down my pen. My coffee was cold. The room had taken on the kind of afternoon light that makes everything look both softer and more precise, the way things do when you’ve been in one place long enough that your eyes have adjusted to it.

“So the structure,” I said. “Years of friendship. She matchmakes, he watches. She’s good at it, he knows she’s good at it, but he also knows she uses it as a substitute for examining her own situation. A wedding where his absence cracks something open. A cruelty — her Box Hill moment — where she does something to someone under the guise of helping and he tells her the truth. And then —”

“And then what?” Jane said.

“That’s what I’m asking.”

“Don’t ask me. I am famously bad at endings. Every one of my novels ends in a marriage, and every one of those marriages is less interesting than what preceded it.”

Nora looked at her with something I couldn’t quite identify — surprise, or recognition, or the particular respect you feel for someone who has just said something you believed but never expected to hear from them.

“I don’t think they confess,” Nora said slowly. “Not in 3,200 words. I don’t think you can earn a confession in that space. What you can earn is the moment where the performance stops. Where she stops being the person who arranges other people and just — is in the room with him. Not fixing anything. Not interpreting anyone. Just present.”

“That is friendship,” Jane said.

“That’s what I’m saying. The love story isn’t about the moment friendship becomes romance. It’s about the moment they both realize the friendship was already more than friendship, and it has been for years, and calling it friendship was just the word they used so they wouldn’t have to deal with it.”

“A semantic dodge,” Jane said.

“The longest semantic dodge in the history of two people who live seven blocks apart.”

Jane almost smiled. I had been watching for it — the micro-expression that in another face would have been a grin and in hers was a slight softening around the eyes, a barely perceptible relaxation of the jaw.

“I want the ending to be a door,” I said. “An actual door. His apartment door. She’s standing outside it. She’s been there before — a thousand times, with takeout, with a bottle of wine, with a complaint about someone at work. But this time she’s standing there with nothing in her hands. No excuse. No errand. She just came. And she doesn’t knock. Not yet. The story ends with her hand raised.”

“No,” Jane said.

“No?”

“The story ends with his. He opens the door before she knocks. Because he heard her footsteps in the hall. Because he has always known the sound of her arriving.”

Nora set down her coffee cup hard enough that it rang against the saucer. “Damn it.”

“Is that agreement?”

“That’s me being angry that it’s perfect and I didn’t say it.”

I wrote it down. The footsteps. The door opening before the knock. The silence of a man who has been listening for years and a woman who has finally stopped having a reason to show up and showed up anyway, which was the only reason that ever mattered.

Jane stood and went to the window. Nora stayed in her chair. I looked at my notes and found, scattered across eight pages, the shape of something — not a plot, not a plan, but a frequency. Two people on the same frequency who have spent years tuning to different stations, and a story about the moment one of them stops adjusting the dial.

“The title,” Nora said. “What’s the title.”

I had been thinking about rooms. How she’s always in the wrong room — at the wedding, at the parties she orchestrates, in her own apartment on Friday nights when she’s watching his show on her screen and he’s watching it on his. Every room she’s in is the wrong one, because the right one is whichever one he’s in, and she hasn’t let herself know that yet.

“Every Wrong Room,” I said.

“Hmm,” Jane said, from the window.

“What does ‘hmm’ mean?”

“It means I am reserving judgment, which is the most generous thing I do.”

Nora was pulling on her coat. “I like it. Rooms are good. Rooms mean thresholds. Thresholds mean decisions. And she’s been standing in doorways for years, which is the most romantic-comedy thing a person can do — hovering at the entrance to your own life, pretending you’re just passing through.”

Jane said nothing. She was watching something on the street below — a couple walking a dog, or a woman struggling with an umbrella, or nothing at all. Her silence had the quality of a held breath, and I realized she was still thinking about the door, about the footsteps, about a man who opens up before he’s asked, and that she was thinking about it as a writer, not as a participant in this conversation, and that the story had already begun to pull away from us and become its own thing, which is what stories do when they’re ready to be written, which is the only sign I trust.