What the Glass Eyes Know

A discussion between Angela Carter and Emily Brontë


The pub was wrong for both of them, which is why I’d chosen it. A low-ceilinged place near the canal in Skipton, horse brasses on the beams, a fire that smoked badly when the wind changed. Angela had ordered gin without specifying which, and received it with a look that communicated volumes about provincial drinking. Emily hadn’t ordered at all. She sat with her coat still on, turning a beer mat over and over in her fingers, watching the door as though expecting someone else to arrive.

I had my notebook open and a pint I was already regretting. The combination brief was between us on the table — a taxidermist’s household, two women, queer desire as gothic subject — and neither of them had looked at it yet.

“Taxidermy,” Angela said, as if testing the word’s weight. “You want me to write about taxidermy.”

“Not you specifically. I’m the one who’ll write it. But I want your instincts in the room when I’m making decisions.”

“My instincts regarding dead animals with glass eyes.” She sipped the gin. “Fine. There’s something in it. The craftsman who makes the dead look alive — that’s my uncle Philip, isn’t it? That’s the toymaker. He builds obedient things. He wants the world arranged on shelves, every creature in its correct pose, its correct attitude of flight or feeding or submission. And the women in his house are just the specimens he hasn’t mounted yet.”

Emily looked up from the beer mat. “How many women?”

“Two,” I said. “Raised as sisters. One is the taxidermist’s daughter by blood. The other was taken in — a foundling, perhaps, or a relation’s orphan. They’ve grown up in this house of preserved things.”

“So one belongs and one doesn’t.” Emily’s voice was flat, declarative. She had the Yorkshire habit of making observations that sounded like geological facts. “And the one who doesn’t belong is the dangerous one.”

“Why dangerous?” Angela asked.

“Because she has nothing to lose. Heathcliff is dangerous because Wuthering Heights isn’t his by right. He can burn it down. The son of the house can’t, because then he’d have nowhere to stand. The foundling, the taken-in child, the one who was raised inside but never really domesticated — she sees the house for what it is. A cage made of glass eyes and arsenic.”

Angela set down her glass. I could see her recalibrating. She’d arrived expecting to dominate the conversation — not because she was arrogant, exactly, but because her intelligence had a baroque confidence to it, a tendency to construct elaborate arguments that filled all available space. Emily’s bluntness was a different architecture entirely, and Angela was adjusting to it.

“Arsenic,” Angela said. “Tell me about the arsenic.”

I told them about arsenical soap — the compound Victorian taxidermists rubbed into animal hides to preserve them. Powdered arsenic, white soap, calcium oxide. How it kept the specimens perfect for decades but poisoned the people who handled them. How whole families of taxidermists developed chronic arsenic exposure: skin lesions, neurological damage, a peculiar kind of wasting that people mistook for consumption or melancholy.

“So the house itself is poisonous,” Emily said.

“The craft is poisonous. The art of making dead things look alive — the preservative is the poison. You can’t have one without the other.”

Angela was leaning forward now. The gin was forgotten. “This is the image. This is the whole story in a single compound. The thing that preserves is the thing that kills. The house keeps everything perfect and it’s rotting them from the inside. And the two women — they’re being preserved, aren’t they? Kept in attitudes the household has chosen for them. Devoted sisters. Obedient daughters. Domestic creatures posed behind glass.”

“But they’re not sisters,” I said. “That’s the point. The household calls it sisterly devotion. The town calls it — something else. And the women themselves don’t have a word for it yet, or they do, but the word is so dangerous they can’t speak it inside the house.”

Emily pulled her feet up onto the chair. She did this when she was thinking — made herself smaller, more compact, as if the physical contraction helped her concentrate. “I resist the idea that they don’t know. I resist it absolutely. Catherine knows what Heathcliff is to her from the moment she first sees him. The knowledge is instantaneous. It’s the world that doesn’t know, or pretends not to. The women in your taxidermist’s house — they know. They’ve always known. The question isn’t when they discover it. The question is what happens when the household stops pretending.”

“But in Carter’s world,” I said carefully, “the discovery is part of the story. In The Magic Toyshop, Melanie doesn’t arrive knowing who she is. She arrives as a girl and the house transforms her — through violence, through desire, through the puppet theater that forces her into a role she didn’t choose. The becoming is the story.”

Angela considered this. “He’s right that I’m interested in transformation. But Emily’s right that pretending not to know is its own kind of violence. What if both things are true? The women know, in their bodies, in the dark, when one of them can’t sleep and the other lies awake listening. They know the way you know a storm is coming — not because someone told you, but because the pressure changes. But the knowing has nowhere to go. The house has no room for it. The father — the taxidermist — his craft is precisely the elimination of wildness. He takes wild things and makes them still. He takes living postures and freezes them. What he’s done to these women is taxidermy of the soul.”

“Taxidermy of the soul,” I wrote down. Emily watched me write it and said nothing, which I’d learned was her version of grudging approval.

“I want there to be a workshop,” Angela continued. “Not just a shop or a studio. A workshop with the whole apparatus visible — the tanning chemicals, the wire armatures, the glass eyes in their little compartments sorted by species and size. And the women have been in and out of this workshop their whole lives. They know how to skin a rabbit. They know how to wire a bird’s wings into a position of flight. They know the whole grammar of faking life. And this knowledge is — do you see? — it’s the thing that makes them dangerous. Because if you understand how a pose is constructed, you understand that every pose is a lie.”

“Including the pose of sisterhood,” I said.

“Including the pose of sisterhood.”

Emily unfolded slightly. “I don’t want the workshop to be the whole world. I want weather. I want the moor outside the door. There must be somewhere they can go where the father’s craft doesn’t reach — where things are genuinely alive and also genuinely dying, where nothing is preserved because nothing needs to be. The heath. The rain. The place where the wind strips you down to what you actually are.”

“The moor as the antithesis of the specimen case,” I said.

“Don’t put it that neatly. The moor is the antithesis of nothing. The moor simply is. It doesn’t define itself against anything. It exists the way love exists — without reference to what opposes it. The women go out onto the moor and they’re not escaping the house. They’re being themselves, and themselves happens to be something the house won’t contain.”

Angela turned her gin glass in a slow circle on the table. “Here’s where we disagree. You want the moor to be freedom. I want the moor to be another kind of trap. Because the world outside the house — the town, the neighbors, the church — is worse than the house. The house at least pretends not to see. The world outside sees and names and punishes. The women can be whatever they are on the moor, but they can’t live on the moor. They have to come back. And every time they come back, the house is waiting with its glass eyes and its arsenical soap, ready to put them back in their correct positions.”

“They can live on the moor,” Emily said. “Catherine couldn’t, and that’s what killed her. But these women aren’t Catherine. They’re something Catherine might have become if she’d had the courage to stop choosing between the two houses.”

“Catherine chose between the two men,” Angela said. “Between the wild thing and the civilized thing. Your women don’t have that choice, because the wild thing and the beloved thing are the same person.”

“Yes. That’s why this story is different from mine. These women don’t have to choose between passion and survival. They have to choose between being alive together and being preserved apart. And the house — the father’s house, the house of taxidermy — wants them preserved. Wants them forever in their glass case, posed as sisters, devotional and still, with arsenic in their bones and glass eyes where their real eyes used to be.”

I realized I’d stopped writing. I’d been listening with my whole body, and the notebook was abandoned on the table between us. The fire popped and the wind changed and the chimney smoked and Angela coughed and Emily didn’t.

“There’s something I haven’t raised,” I said. “The risk card. The story has to end ambiguously. Two interpretations, equally supported. Not evasion — genuine irresolution. The truest possible ending.”

Emily nodded as though this were obvious. “Love stories don’t end. That’s what people get wrong about Wuthering Heights. They think the ending is death. The ending is the shepherd boy seeing two figures walking on the moor. Two interpretations: ghosts, or imagination. And both are true, and neither is, and the story goes on past the last page because the moor doesn’t care about pages.”

“But in a queer gothic,” Angela said, “the ambiguity has a different valence. The closet is itself ambiguous — are they sisters? are they lovers? And that ambiguity isn’t poetic. It’s political. The outside world uses ambiguity as a weapon. ‘They were such devoted companions.’ ‘Such an unusual bond.’ The language of deniability. So your ambiguous ending has to do something with that — it has to use the very mechanism of the closet, the built-in deniability of women’s intimacy, and make the reader feel the vertigo of never being sure.”

“Never being sure if what?” I asked.

“If the women got out. If they escaped together or were put back in the case. If the fire was liberation or destruction. If the wild thing survived or was the last specimen the house preserved.”

“Fire,” Emily said. The word came out of her like a struck match.

Angela looked at her. “Yes. Fire.”

“The Magic Toyshop ends in fire,” I said. “Melanie and Finn escape and the house burns behind them.”

“I know how my own stories end,” Angela said. “But fire in a taxidermist’s house is a particular thing. All those preserved animals. All that arsenic. All those glass eyes melting. The fire wouldn’t just be destruction — it would be release. Every bird that was pinned in flight would burn, and the burning would be a kind of flight.”

“Or a kind of death,” Emily said. “Flight and death. Same thing, for a bird that was already dead.”

We sat with that for a long time. The pub was emptying. Someone was stacking chairs in the next room. Angela picked up the combination brief and read it properly for the first time, her lips moving slightly, and set it down without comment. Emily was watching the fire, which was dying.

“I want to say something about the glass eyes,” I said. “The taxidermist orders them from Germany — hand-painted, specific to each species. He keeps them in a cabinet, labeled and sorted. Hundreds of pairs of eyes that have never seen anything. And the women — one of them, the foundling, the taken-in one — she opens this cabinet sometimes when the father is away. She picks up the eyes and holds them. Not to look through them. Just to hold something that was made to simulate sight but has never witnessed a single living moment.”

Angela’s face changed. It was the look she got when something was right — not pleased exactly, but recognized, the way you recognize your own face in an unexpected mirror.

“That’s the image,” she said. “Eyes that have never seen. Preservation without life. The whole project of the house in a pair of glass spheres. And the woman holds them because — because she wants to be seen, and these are the only eyes in the house that aren’t already looking at her with a judgment already formed.”

“Or because she wants to see,” Emily said. “Because her own eyes have been trained to look at the world the way the household looks at the world — cataloguing, classifying, posing. And she picks up these blank glass eyes because she wants to remember what it was like to see without naming. To look at the other woman and not have to call it sisterhood or devotion or sin. Just to look.”

The fire went out. Neither of them moved to revive it. Angela finished her gin in the dark, and Emily sat perfectly still, and I thought about glass eyes that have never seen anything, and the wind picked up outside, and I could hear the canal, and somewhere a dog was barking, and the story was already growing in the silence between us, in the space where none of us had the right words yet, where the only honest thing was to sit with the not-knowing and let it become